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1977 CB550 Project

105K views 223 replies 32 participants last post by  flipmotorcycles 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

So as previously mentioned in another thread I picked up a 1977 cb550F last week in reasonable condition. Plan for now is to just get it cleaned up and running well and rideable. I'm self employed and keep my own hours so not really as busy as someone working 5 days a wk w/ a 9-5. Hoping I can move relatively fast w/ the work..only hinderance will be waiting on money to come in to fund the next stage. We'll see though. I've gone ahead and downloaded a honda service manual, parts manual and Haynes' Motorcycle Basics Techbook.

Known issues:
Currently the engine starts and idles but 2 of the throttle slides are seized and the other two were stiff so the bike does not rev up when the throttle is turned. Front brake is not working, needs new battery, and possibly the oil pump is not working? The guy I bought it from suggested there might be an issue since there was a slight ticking when the bike was running.

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Land vehicle Vehicle Motorcycle Motor vehicle Car


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Land vehicle Vehicle Motorcycle Motor vehicle Automotive tire


Land vehicle Vehicle Motor vehicle Motorcycle Auto part


Vehicle Auto part Motor vehicle Car Tire


Carbs:
Pulled the carbs and have started to disassemble. They weren't gunky but more like dried up crud all over the inside. Right now only one is fully disassembled. The float pin is stuck on the 3 others so I've been dripping berrymans carb dip on the pin periodically over the past day and a half to loosen. Was able to get the 1st out this way. Would just soak em but didn't want to fuck up the floats. . Once i get the pins out I'll see about unsticking the two throttle slides that are stuck. there's a few marks from someone trying to pry them up w/ a screwdriver already. I've been dripping some berrymans on the slides as well to see if that helps unstick. will probably try messing w/ later today.

Auto part Engine Automotive engine part Carburetor


Auto part Carburetor


Should I be concerned w/ this mark on the throttle slide? Is it indicative of anything?

Hand Finger


Gas Tank:
Tank is rusty inside..PO had fresh gas when i went to pick up so i drained to see how much rust was in there....brown gas came out of course(see pic below). Thought I would just see rust and silver metal on the inner tank body after it was empty but there's also some type of black in there that is flaking. Am I right to assume it might have been lined in the past w/ Kreem or something similar? If so, I would like to get that shit out before I redo inside of tank but, I have researched what to use yet. However, I did do some research for rust removal and phosphoric acid seems most appealing method to me. also supposedly leaves a zinc coating???? but i haven't been able to confirm that anywhere.. thoughts????? I would prefer not to use a sealer if i can avoid it. Just don't like the idea of having something in there beyond what's needed that might fail.

Blue Water Cobalt blue Automotive wheel system Electric blue


Drain Sanitary sewer Auto part Gas Pipe



Other Things:
Have read through a few project threads on here and really like what Dean has been doing w/ the rust removal and zinc plating all the bolts/screws and metal. Wondering if instead of the plating kit i can accomplish the same by dipping in phosphoric acid since it supposedly leaves the zinc coating? If not then I'll just buy the kit. Regardless, I think I'd like to clean up as I go.

Even though the engine runs I'm thinking I should open it up and check everything out/clean up in there as well. figure if i'm going to clean the carbs and all the other bs I should do the engine as well and i'd also like to know nothing major is wrong that's gonna kill me once it's rideable. Yay or Nay?

That's about all I've got so far. Once I've got the carbs clean and the tank redone will move onto the next step.Thoughts on what it should be? Any other thoughts welcome as well.
 
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#33 ·
If you are talking about the cover that sits end's of the cam box with two holes in it, yes, oil should be pissing out of there. It is possible to blank them. Check to see if there is screws with a rubber in the end of the rocker guides. If there isn't check if those guides have seized, if not you may have a blocked passage up that side of the engine. If that is the case and you find something, it's good you've torn the head off. Check for wear as I mentioned before.

Where's this video?
 
#36 · (Edited)
550 is dead reliable stock and not too bad with a 591cc kit, cam, etc
It NEEDS dual disc conversion, the stock single disc just isn't up to the weight of bike (unless you never go over 40mph)
The oil line to secondary pump can split (pressure feed through transmission)
Easy to change, just pull sump and remove pick-up
Primary chain can have cracked links or side plates, shows someone was trying to drag race
You screwed up valve adjustment by the sound of it, TDC 1.4 isn't the same as TDCC 1 OR 4 (or you have major exhaust leak?)
BTW, oil will not be pissing out of the rocker shafts, it will leak slightly, the pressure is at the center , where the cam bearings are
I don't know why people think the 550 and 400f are the same motor?
 
#38 ·
@crazypj.... yeah what is the deal w/ #3. it was a serious bitch getting in there every time i needed to tighten/loosen the plug.


regards to timing......it was doing noise before i adjusted as well. i feel pretty confident i did it right but, i noticed last night looking at the bottom of the tappet adjusting screws there are several that are chipped/notched pretty bad on the intake side toward the edge as opposed to center where i assume it would contact if it were adjusted properly. I'm guessing maybe it was ran for a while with them out of adjustment??? can't remember now but i want to say it was #1, #3, and #4 that had the notches.

re: the oil squirting, it does leak slightly like you say out of the rocker shaft. where does the oil get inside the rocker shaft anyway? was looking but can't see where.


yeah, was looking at that dynoman kit when i thought i might have to rebuild pistons/cylinders....if they turn out to be in spec then i kinda would like to avoid doing it simply b/c of cost but we'll see i guess.
 
#39 ·
PJ, the reason I know it's pisses out the side is I had the cap off mine and she shit oil. Not like punching out of the sump but a convincing leak. Had to run it like that for 20 miles through LA before I could get to a shop. Oil all down the right side of my tire. Scared me a bit.

The oil comes down the threaded section but also can work through the outside of the shaft.

When you say notches, photo?
 
#40 · (Edited)
Bob, did you have an early 550?
The later ones 'captured' the rocker shafts so rocker cover didn't wear out (as fast)
The oil gets in through the drilling on top of rocker and migrates along shaft which is why it doesn't piss out on later models
Chipping o outside edge of screws is BAD NEWS
You may have the top of valve bent and guide cracked (actually real common if you didn't 'rubber band' rocker arms when re-fitting cover)
the valve sticks in top of guide then comes up with hell of a 'crack'
At higher rpm, the piston will tap on valve head slightly to 'assist' seating
 
#41 ·
God only knows. Built one good engine out of 3, not including all the stuff I threw into her. 591, webcam, ti retainers, etc. All I know is I have to sort a shifting problem and bring her down to NYC then I'm riding everywhere. May ask for your opinion on something sooner than later if thats ok.

bfont. If you could give us some details photos of the affected areas it would help.
 
#44 ·
what to do. what to do.

So I removed all the valves and started cleaning up the head and all that. Valves mostly seem ok but a couple are possibly ever so slightly bowed. it's kind of hard to tell. I did have one that was a little sticky coming out of the guide. So i'm thinking I will just go ahead and replace the valves unless someone here tells me the bowing is acceptable.. there doesn't seem to be any slop in the guides(i.e. the valves don't move around side to side except for a tiny bit in just one guide) so thinking i dont need to do those as well.
am i ok putting in new valves without getting new guides. hoping noise is just from a valve not seating.

Also noticed yesterday that the dowel on the side of #1 cylinder was clogged up w/ rusty gunk and the base of it was slightly corroded. there's a lot of sludge in the oil pan. engine does not seem to have been treated well. also some very minuscule shiny flecks in the oil pan which makes me want to open the bottom end and inspect to see if there's something overly worn down there.

Pistons show some where but I'm not sure what's considered normal for a bike w/ 30k miles on it. #4 is the only one w/ wear that seems concerning possibly(see pics below). I'd be up for getting some new pistons but i don't really want to do it until i figure out what's causing the noise.

Other than that I'm trying to decide how far to go w/ the rebuild. I don't want to throw too much into it until I know I've fixed what's making this crazy noise. Ideally if i could replace gaskets, piston rings, cam chain, valves and valve stem seals then throw it back together and see if that solves anything that'd be great.


here's a question though, if I have to reopen this thing up after replacing the head gasket is that going to kill my gasket again b/c the old one was stuck to the casing and my thought is the new one would just get fucked up again from removing the head after the new one is installed.



I ran across a parts bike for $300 and wondering if i shouldn't pick this thing up and see if the engine wasn't treated a bit better but then that's a whole other gamble.


Here's some pics

Pistons:










Cylinders:



 
#46 ·
hey guys,

had a thought to try and conserve some money for a minute....


if i just cleanup the internals (valves, pistons, cylinders, etc, replace the gaskets, and get new tappet adjusting screws since mine are notched then reassemble and see if that shit noise is gone before i go all the way with rebuild. is this realistic or am i going to run into any issues doing this?
 
#50 ·
ah shit. smart man.


well, found this lovely rusty friend today. bike has been starting up right away though.

That's your charging rotor, being rusty won't affect whether the bike starts right up as long as the battery is charged. Whether the bike is charging...that's a different story. Break even charging on a SOHC honda occurs at around 2000 rpm (give or take 300 up).

Looking at your cylinders - give it a hone and see if the scoring in # 4 cleans up. If not it is time to go up a size in pistons and a bore job (more money). #4 looks like it had some major piston slap, perhaps this was the source of your noise and the wristpin for that rod is fucked.
 
#49 ·
alright so been doing some investigating...piston 4 is lot more worn than the other 3 so have been wondering why. checked the oil path plugs on the bottom today and found a lot more metal shavings sitting in the bottom of the cap on RH side of the engine(same side as #4). I can't figure out where they're coming from though.

There is a cut out from this entry path to bottom end of the engine and there looks to be some scraping there but don't know what would be scraping it.. Thought maybe it was the crank shaft rubbing but it doesn't come close enough to hit it.

I don't really want to do it but, wondering if should split the case to look at crankshaft. everything else I've read where ppl had shavings in the oil pan ended up being a busted crankshaft bearing.


If anyone has some thoughts it'd be appreciated.
 
#51 ·
If you split the cases you may not need to change the seals but I'd say it's pretty stupid not too. Looking at that donk, you most likely will. That means pulling that rotor which is pressed on. Taking mine off required a shop press and a shitload of heat. Bag and tag everything obviously and take a ton of photos as you go along the way, especially of your shift mechanism. They made 3 slightly different ones so sometimes the manual and the internet will not line it back up for you without a ton of research.
 
#52 ·
hmmmm. rotor sounds like a pia. ziplocs have already started piling up :) debating if i shouldn't just go check out this parts motor i've got a lead on.


anybody have suggestions on who to maybe send out my cylinders to for a rebore if i go that route? Found some places online but hard to know if they're good or not. Talked to one of the techs at the Triumph dealer here in Nola the other day and sounds like there's no one that really does it for bikes. They send all their stuff to millenium technologies.

so is there anything besides oil starvation that might have caused #4 to wear so much more than the other 3 cylinders?
 
#53 ·
did you go see clancy on the westbank yet? he probably knows someone who can rebore, but remember - to rebore you need to have the new pistons and rings first.

I don't think oil starvation did that to #4, more than likely the culprit is a bad wrist pin or excessive play in the rod. that isn't "more wear" that is where the piston skirt touched the cylinder wall and that's pretty much a no no.
 
#54 ·
haha oh man. so not sure why I didn't do it before as I've already checked them side to side to see if there was play but, just went and pulled on the connecting rod for #4 and the thing moves like crazy in and out. rest are solid though.

I haven't gone by clancy's yet but, i have a feeling it may not be there anymore.

will let you know what i find if i can get this thing split.
 
#56 ·
haha oh man. so not sure why I didn't do it before as I've already checked them side to side to see if there was play but, just went and pulled on the connecting rod for #4 and the thing moves like crazy in and out. rest are solid though.
will let you know what i find if i can get this thing split.
if it is the big end of the rod - that isn't a good sign. The crank may be fucked.
 
#55 ·
I checked google earth and the sign is still up. I know the parrish made him clean up the bikes he was storing outside but I still see bikes peeking out of the structures he has.

Through Clancy you can probably find Alan Maiver. Alan is a staple of old bikes in NOLA. He is a former drag racer and has owned a few shops in his prime and knows everybody. His brother is a kenetic artist and just about the best damn tig welder I have ever seen and also a bike guy. Alan was friends with TC Christensen of Hogslayer fame and a record holding drag racer in his own right (I have his h2 laydown frame in my attic). Through Alan you can pretty much find everything you need in old bikes - the man is a resource in his own right. I would give you his contact info but I lost touch with him after katrina. If anyone knows where he is now it will be Clancy. Old motorcycles in NOLA is a small community, you'll get to meet everyone eventually, probably even JT.
 
#58 ·
alright. got it done. Split the cases. was actually able to do it w/ out taking off the rotor. Anyways, as suspected crankshaft bearings on #4 are shot to shit(see pic). looks like one actually slipped around and they were sitting on top of each other b/c one side of the crankshaft is nice and smooth while the other half of it is nicely roughed up. i guess question now is what would cause something like that to happen. Other concern I have is the crankshaft itself. i'm gonna assume replace but if you think otherwise lemme knoooooowwwww. i guess i should prolly measure but's it's pretty scruffy.


in other news and perhaps a bit ahead of myself here but,... that 1100f fork swap got me thinking and so been reading a lot on that. I'd be curious what people have to say as far as wheels in that regard...

initially i was just thinking maybe adapt some of those gold boomerang rims that the 750/900/1100f's came with but then, Kenessex mentioned the f2 and i started thinking/researching.

but how wide is too wide on this bike when it comes to the rear? I found a couple examples of 750s w/ f2 wheels but no reports of handling.

Here's some pics of the mess:





 
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