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1977 CB550 Project

105K views 223 replies 32 participants last post by  flipmotorcycles 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

So as previously mentioned in another thread I picked up a 1977 cb550F last week in reasonable condition. Plan for now is to just get it cleaned up and running well and rideable. I'm self employed and keep my own hours so not really as busy as someone working 5 days a wk w/ a 9-5. Hoping I can move relatively fast w/ the work..only hinderance will be waiting on money to come in to fund the next stage. We'll see though. I've gone ahead and downloaded a honda service manual, parts manual and Haynes' Motorcycle Basics Techbook.

Known issues:
Currently the engine starts and idles but 2 of the throttle slides are seized and the other two were stiff so the bike does not rev up when the throttle is turned. Front brake is not working, needs new battery, and possibly the oil pump is not working? The guy I bought it from suggested there might be an issue since there was a slight ticking when the bike was running.

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Carbs:
Pulled the carbs and have started to disassemble. They weren't gunky but more like dried up crud all over the inside. Right now only one is fully disassembled. The float pin is stuck on the 3 others so I've been dripping berrymans carb dip on the pin periodically over the past day and a half to loosen. Was able to get the 1st out this way. Would just soak em but didn't want to fuck up the floats. . Once i get the pins out I'll see about unsticking the two throttle slides that are stuck. there's a few marks from someone trying to pry them up w/ a screwdriver already. I've been dripping some berrymans on the slides as well to see if that helps unstick. will probably try messing w/ later today.

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Should I be concerned w/ this mark on the throttle slide? Is it indicative of anything?

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Gas Tank:
Tank is rusty inside..PO had fresh gas when i went to pick up so i drained to see how much rust was in there....brown gas came out of course(see pic below). Thought I would just see rust and silver metal on the inner tank body after it was empty but there's also some type of black in there that is flaking. Am I right to assume it might have been lined in the past w/ Kreem or something similar? If so, I would like to get that shit out before I redo inside of tank but, I have researched what to use yet. However, I did do some research for rust removal and phosphoric acid seems most appealing method to me. also supposedly leaves a zinc coating???? but i haven't been able to confirm that anywhere.. thoughts????? I would prefer not to use a sealer if i can avoid it. Just don't like the idea of having something in there beyond what's needed that might fail.

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Other Things:
Have read through a few project threads on here and really like what Dean has been doing w/ the rust removal and zinc plating all the bolts/screws and metal. Wondering if instead of the plating kit i can accomplish the same by dipping in phosphoric acid since it supposedly leaves the zinc coating? If not then I'll just buy the kit. Regardless, I think I'd like to clean up as I go.

Even though the engine runs I'm thinking I should open it up and check everything out/clean up in there as well. figure if i'm going to clean the carbs and all the other bs I should do the engine as well and i'd also like to know nothing major is wrong that's gonna kill me once it's rideable. Yay or Nay?

That's about all I've got so far. Once I've got the carbs clean and the tank redone will move onto the next step.Thoughts on what it should be? Any other thoughts welcome as well.
 
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#61 ·
Once you are over a 140 tire size in the rear, the extra width is wasted and starts to negatively affect handling with the current geometry.

Spun bearings can be caused by a lot of things, dirt in the bearing surface or oil passage for instance. If I had to guess on your bike it would either be a moon shot (revving past redline....way past) or out of spec bearing clearance to begin with. The excessive play is about the only thing that probably kept it don seizing and breaking the rod. Once the bearing spins the oil flow to that rod stops. Personally I wouldn't trust a crank that had a rod toss a bearing, so you are probably in the hunt for a new used crank or complete engine.

On anothe note, how does your gearbox look? Inspect the gear engagement dogs and look for signs of full throttle power shifting.
 
#62 ·
gearbox looks good. i don't see anything excessive. primary chain has a lot of play though. so i'm gonna assume replacement there too.

I can get a parts bike for $300 from a guy near here w/ salvage yard. may or may not be able to talk him down. seems perhaps the most logical thing at this point but, still a bit of an unknown. i'm gonna go check it out later this week but, i won't have the cash to get it for a bit.


also, i went out to see if clancy's is still around. they're closed up now. place was empty.

did find a reputable place through a friend that will do a rebore.
 
#63 ·
300 for a parts bike is fine if the engine is in good shape. You are going to spend 500 in parts to put your engine back together with rings, bearings and a gasket set, not to mention a crank if you need it. By the time you sell off the front end, carbs and Misc. parts from the parts bike, you will have the motor for nothing.

I think I talked about the f wheels, not f2. The f2 rear needs a 160 tire to get the profile right. The f wheels are good with a 140 or 150. I think a 160 rear 120 front is too big for the 550. I run a 110 front and 150 rear on f wheels on my Seca 550 and they are about right.
 
#65 ·
ya, i'm gonna go take a look at that engine later this week and see what's up.

you did mention F's, not sure why i thought F2. will look into the F1's.

i'm actually kind of feeling those gold boomerangs from the cb1100fs and theyr'e not too different from stock 550 and it'll go straight into the front end i picked up. just would need to figure out the rear. Most ppl seem to be running 100/110 front and 130/140 rear on those rims. I'm curious about the wider cbr's but they're so much wider than stock I'd kind of want to know what I'm getting into first.

different bike of course but, did you put that 150 in the stock swingarm or did you change that out as well? would be curious to see a pic of your bike.

trying to get a handle on relationship between tire width/size, wheelbase, rake and trail so i can understand what's happening. just spent the last 2 hours or so gathering specs for the 550 and 1100f to see how everything correlates.

i snagged the front end so i'll have it when i'm ready for it.
 
#67 ·
This is my Seca with F wheels.
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However, I put F2 wheels on my Ascot with a 120 front and a 160 rear and I like the feel of that bike, too.
 
#70 ·
ok. so from what i gather, wider tirer = harder to lean the bike yes? Am i right to assume that once it's leaned over though that you could lean it further than a bike w/ skinny tires before slippage occurs and go faster through a turn assuming all other things are equal? not that i'm going to be barreling through turns anytime soon, just would like to understand it all.

Kenessex, how would say your current setup differs from the stock in terms of handling?
 
#71 ·
It handles differently than stock, but I have changed the wheels, forks, longer rear shocks, better shocks, steering damper and I don't ride it on the street. All in all, I have it pretty well balanced right now between twitchiness and stability. Keep in mind that I like a heavy handling front end on a race bike and don't care too much about what the rear does. I also weigh 250 and have been racing for 35 years. So, what works for me might not be what you want on the street. That being said, I wouldn't have any problems with the Seca as a daily rider for me, set up the way it is. As far as I am concerned, tire diameter and width are a matter of personal preference to suit your riding style and needs. There is no right or wrong, just preferences. Generally, I prefer wide 17' wheels.
 
#73 ·
So I nerded out a bit today and did some calculations to compare what geometry would be on stock 550 vs a 550 w/ cb1100f fork and wheels. been gathering info the past couple days. If you click the photo you should be able to read everything full size.

I was just curious to see how drastic of a change there would be. I don't actually have enough riding experience to predict how noticeable changes would actually be in real world but it's interesting to see the numbers and wouldn't appear to make the bike unsafe. If I'm reading things right it looks as though the new fork would actually make the bike more stable at speed and perhaps less agile in the corners. correct???




I've read that fork tube length has no effect on rake but not sure if that is true in a situation where the front end is actually attached to the bike... if it were isolated in theory i think that would be correct but consider it's attached to a fixed axis in the rear i don't see how it can have no effect. i don't have fork lengths and i couldn't actually find a formula that took it into acct so calcs above assume wheelbase and rake would not change due to difference in fork length.

Maybe I'm wrong but, my assumption is that longer fork tubes would actually increase rake and potentially wheelbase due to the rotation of the bike on the rear axis upwards to fit the longer fork. i would assume longer shocks or sliding the tubes up in the triples would compensate for the difference to some extent. anyone know?


I was able to use the formula on this page to find out the true diameter of the front wheel w/ a tire mounted:

However, the majority of these calculations were made using the book below which is a pretty fucking awesome book if you want to understand all this type of crap.

- - - Updated - - -

So I nerded out a bit today and did some calculations to compare what geometry would be on stock 550 vs a 550 w/ cb1100f fork and wheels. been gathering info the past couple days. If you click the photo you should be able to read everything full size.

I was just curious to see how drastic of a change there would be. I don't actually have enough riding experience to predict how noticeable changes would actually be in real world but it's interesting to see the numbers and wouldn't appear to make the bike unsafe. If I'm reading things right it looks as though the new fork would actually make the bike more stable at speed and perhaps less agile in the corners. correct???




I've read that fork tube length has no effect on rake but not sure if that is true in a situation where the front end is actually attached to the bike... if it were isolated in theory i think that would be correct but consider it's attached to a fixed axis in the rear i don't see how it can have no effect. i don't have fork lengths and i couldn't actually find a formula that took it into acct so calcs above assume wheelbase and rake would not change due to difference in fork length.

Maybe I'm wrong but, my assumption is that longer fork tubes would actually increase rake and potentially wheelbase due to the rotation of the bike on the rear axis upwards to fit the longer fork. i would assume longer shocks or sliding the tubes up in the triples would compensate for the difference to some extent. anyone know?


I was able to use the formula on this page to find out the true diameter of the front wheel w/ a tire mounted:

However, the majority of these calculations were made using the book below which is a pretty fucking awesome book if you want to understand all this type of crap.
 
#74 ·
These showed up today... even got some bars w/ 'em. spent $150 in all. $100 for the front end, $30 to ship, and $20 for an air pipe I found on the cb1100f forum as the guy w/ the forks lost it. will probably sell the handlebars and the stock ones off the cb550 though as i would like some black superbike bars or maybe some gold renthals could look cool if i get those gold boomerang or could just be too much...we'll see when the time comes...

checking out parts engine on monday if the guy doesn't flake.






 
#75 · (Edited)
So couple wheel related questions...

stock wheels on 550 are 18 rear, 19 front....the 1100f fork i picked up is 3 or 4 inches longer than the 550's so my rake is going to increase a bit along w/ my wheelbase. I've settled on getting some gold boomerang wheels as it will bolt right into the fork and like the look of course :p. stock wheels on cb1100f are 17 rear, 18 front. however, vf750's also came w/ gold boomies, 18 rear, 16 front. So, in effort to help raise the rear a tad to compensate for that longer fork I've gotten a vf750 rear(3x18) and was planning a 18 1100f in the front. evening out the wheels would bring the tad up a smidge. But then i started wondering about the vf750's 16" front to help bring the rake back closer to stock even more. they're also more plentiful on ebay and slightly cheaper than the 1100f's wheel.

Question: how bad is that 16 going to compromise stability? is it going to be extreme? no one seems to run anything this small anymore. i need to do some calcs to see what actual changes are but i'm mainly wondering how that size wheel is going to handle bumps and such.

if 16 on the front is a bad idea i'll probably just get some longer shocks in the rear, I'm 6'2 so it wouldn't be bad if the bike were a little higher on the seat.
 
#78 ·
So made some progess. grinded the stem out of the 550 and swapped it into the cb1100f triples....too short though :) 1100f triples are thicker than 550's so plan is to go have bottom of 1100f triple welded to 550 to lengthen enough.

I was able to do a mockup though w/ the new fork on the bike(no bearings in). Right now I have 3" spacers in the fork to shorten it so I can get geometry back to stock. still need to raise the rear a tad to bring all the way back. i have clearance on the bottom triple so wont hit that but my fork travel is reduced to 3" maybe a little less so concerned about bottoming out...thoughts? planning new, stiffer springs. i also have an email out to racetech to see what they think....if 3" is too much i may shorten spacers to 2".


been getting a lot of parts in. rear brake, axles, black renthal ultralows, new controls(rh from cbr1000, lh/throttle from cbr250 - assume they'll wire up :p ), also found a crank w/ rods and the crankshaft bearings but USPS seems to have lost my package perhaps. who knows. hoping it's just delayed. have a rear wheel (gold boomie) coming from germany that is taking forever. found a front also so gonna lock that in this week hopefully. Also bought a 650 cam yesterday.

my goal is to have this thing ready for end of may but that might be ambitious.


kind of handy...measured rake w/ a protractor app on my phone..just hold it along the fork legs and it gives you the angle. fancy.


550 w/ 1100f fork. (I know the legs are backwards..)
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550 w/ 1100f fork and rear raised. puts rake 1 degree steeper than stock. more or less... not exact b/c i don't have bearings in stem.
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#80 ·
So I’ve been trying to figure out what to do w/ the frame. I didn’t really want to just paint it black. Was thinking to keep it raw but didn’t really want a silver frame. This weekend I stumbled across a bicycle project where a guy use perma blue(used to blue guns) on his frame then covered it with a clear Powder Coat. Looks really nice imho. Has that nice texture of the metal but darker so it’s more subtle and not screaming at you.. (marc, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the clear Powder coat). So I’m leaning towards that right now. Thinking I might like to make some metal side covers in the same fashion possibly.

Gas tank will be raw for the time being. I still have the honda side plates that have a little gold in them which will be a nice little accent w/ the gold boomerang rims I think. Open to paint options but nothing is really jumping out at me right now......considered possibly the same treatment as frame but lighter. I dunno.

Metal Blueing w/ clear Powder Coat.
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Gas tank will be raw for the time being. I still have the honda tank plates that have a little gold in them which will be a nice little accent w/ the gold boomerang rims I think. Open to paint options but nothing is really jumping out at me....though considered possibly the same treatment as frame but a little lighter maybe.


I’m sticking w/ the stock seat for a while b/c of budget reasons but starting to think about what will happen w/ it eventually. Initially was thinking the hoop w/ a flatter but still cush seat but now thinking more along the lines of a seat like below w a shortened fender and tail light like the photos below. I don’t really want to cut up the frame and I like the idea of keeping the helmet lock and the tool kit under the seat.

I like this seat that vinyl-lux made for this 450....a nice lower profile, updated take on the original. I'd like a shorter rear fender though.
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Taillights....I really hate all those bullet lights that everyone sells. been looking at a bunch of taillights from old cars...some cool ones out there but not sure how well they’d mesh w/ the rest of the bike. Kind of stumped on turn signals. Found one pair on DCC that might work but otherwise everything seems to be bullet shape.

Some examples...lucas one is my fave(probably go w/ this or a rectangular lucas replica) but here's some others i ran across...kinda like the 2nd one actually.
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#81 ·
sorta kinda like a real motorcycle... but not really.

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started to strip the frame. didn't darken it yet. probably do so this week but honestly debating if i don't just like the black frame better...wondering if there won't be enough contrast between frame and tank if i just do the perma blue on the frame.......think i'm actually gonna get the frame sandblasted to make sure it's stripped good before i do the perma blue. too much rust and tiny crevices i dont have the patience for.
btw..was quoted $250 to blast and powdercoat frame. sound bout right?
 
#85 ·
Yeah from what I can see, some things are a lot cheaper here than in the US, like powdercoating, engineering etc and then other things here are monstrously more expensive, ie parts, bikes in general, gear, pretty much everything else :D basically anything that has to be shipped in since we are down in the fairly remote end of the world...
 
#86 ·
Bike is coming along.. was planning to go w/ new stock pistons/rings but when i realized it wasn't any cheaper than going oversize i decided on a dynoman 592 kit.

Steering stem is more or less done. i got both stems removed pretty easy but the 1100f triples are taller than 550 so the 550 stem was too short once it was placed in the 1100f's triples. I had the shop cut a portion off the bottom of the 1100f stem and weld it to the 550's stem to lengthen it. worked well but, i had a little more added than I needed so I had some room to adjust it up or down but, kind of wishing I had just done it exact now.....You can see in the photo below the stem sticks out of bottom a bit once it is placed at the proper length(it actually needs to be pushed up slightly more than in this photo). anyways, think i'll probably have the excess chopped off and a weld done around the bottom to clean it all up and secure it. I also need to get some fork stop tabs welded to the bottom triple.

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Got some rotors(from gl1100), a gsxr steering damper, new crank/rods to replace the one w/ the spun bearing, and some other bits.

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Repainted and rebuilt the rear master cylinder(still need to figure out where to mount this, there's not a lot of room down there w/ the stock peg configuration. if anyone has any tips regarding rear disc brake conversion on a cb550 i'm all ears). after looking at some pics wondering if it might work better w/ a cb750 brake arm shaft due to the way the inner side is oriented. (anyone know if it’s the same diameter?) Caliper rebuild is next.

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Dynoman 592 kit.

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Next up is getting the swingarm cut down and a sleeve made for the 550's pivot bolt. It also looks like i'll probably have to machine the cush drive down a bit for the chain to align but, i'm about out of cash for the moment so might be a minute before that happens.

just mocking shit up so i can get an idea(swingarm isn't actually in the right spot b/c the pivot is too wide right now)....my whole house has turned into a fucking garage. i have a room dedicated for working on stuff but parts are all over the place in every room.

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my shift drum is kind of funky and the tongs on the forks are pretty worn so i think i'm gonna get a better one. not sure if there were problems w /tranny before but it's cheap so gonna do it as a preventative. all the gears look solid though.
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#87 ·
Anyone mounted a rear MC with the stock peg setup. Really squeezed for room and can't find a good spot to put the MC...have seen a lot of pics of one mounted on rearsets but i want to keep the stock pegs position as I'm using superbike bars. thought about using a cb750 brake shaft but can't tell from pictures if it will work on 550 frame.



other news, dropped off my cylinder block and head to get bored on Tuesday(bought a dynoman 592 kit). And also getting them resurfaced/flattened. Going to drop off my swingarm today to get a 1/2 inch cut off the pivot width. Once i get the tabs for the mc welded on i can bring frame to powdercoater. planning to start assembling engine next week.

have my dad welding fork stop tabs on lower triple and making me a sleeve for the pivot bolt on the swingarm which is definitely going to save me some cash. once i get that back i can check wheels for alignment and figure out how much i need milled off the cush drive to make chain align.
 
#88 ·
Small progress on some things....


Fork stops welded on my bottom triple.
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Picked up my cylinder head and block earlier this week. had 'em decked and cylinders bored out for a dp592 kit....$50/hole for the bores and $50 per deck.

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Found some cbr rearsets on ebay for $85.....really wasn't planning to go w/ rearsets but it seems like it's the only way i can make room for the rear MC and a properly working brake shaft...gonna try to find a comfortable spot to mount so I can keep my passenger pegs but might be a lost cause. Also, these things are fucking huge!
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As she sits now. really want to do something about the seat...looking pretty shitty right now imho.
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I'm planning to order some yss 14.5" shocks(stock is 12.75 roughly) but before I blow $500 i wanna make sure that's the right length so I have some cheapo $90 shocks from dcc on order to use to make sure rake is proper and so I can see about where i want my rearsets mounted. right now i have the fork lowered internally by 3 inches(1100f fork is 4 inches longer than cb550), so the long shocks should allow me to get some of that length back so I'm not losing so much travel.

waiting on a new primary chain and cam chain and then I'll start putting the engine back together next week. psyched that this thing is starting to come together. fingers crossed the shit actually works.
 
#94 ·
That's a bottom tree from what? Not a 550. it looks like the 2 big holes are for handle bar mounts. I agree, I have never seen a bottom tree with a pinch bolt. doesn't look anything like the tree in the fiche. Looks like a top tree inverted.
 
#95 · (Edited)
It's the bottom triple from a cb1100f fork. i swapped the front end.... the pinch bolt is b/c the stem has splines on it and slides in and locks in place w/ a flat side to keep it from rotating instead of being welded in.

From the service manual: notice the pinch bolt. i have no idea what those holes are for...maybe to run speedo and tach cables possibly. those two screws in the front hold the 2 into 1 splitter for the front brake cables.
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