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2 stroke points help?

This is a discussion on 2 stroke points help? within the Technical forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; I spent a lot of time working on flywheel magneto bikes. Its a very simple system. You have a low voltage coil charging high voltage ...

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  1. #71
    Senior Member crazypj's Avatar
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    I spent a lot of time working on flywheel magneto bikes.
    Its a very simple system.
    You have a low voltage coil charging high voltage coil with points interrupting current.
    You don't have battery voltage to coil
    Points gap is set with points at maximum opening which is going to be well after top dead center, points just breaking is timing position, usually marked on flywheel.
    Get coil from any 1960's~70's single cyl twostroke.
    I would use Suzuki A100, B100P, GP100/125, but, only because I'm more familiar with them.
    May have to get one from far east or Europe/Britain but it should be cheap enough.
    PM retroTony, he may be willing/able to help?
    (I would but I'm from UK, living in Florida)

    PJ
    I dabble in rocket science, when I\'m not picking my nose
    The other night I gave my girlfriend an orgasm, but, she spat it back at me

    'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

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  3. #72
    Senior Member lonewolf's Avatar
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    I know that I'll regret saying anything here because I have very little 2 stroke experience. Is the lobe that operates the points on the crankshaft? What about the crank bearings? is it loose? I know it has low milage but the bike has been sitting around for a long time and I have heard that crank bearings can deteriorate if left for long periods of time.Hmmmm, Washington state, air is pretty moist up there isn't it? My guess can't be any further off than the rest since the bike isn't operating properly.

  4. #73
    Senior Member crazypj's Avatar
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    The points cam is formed into the sleeve on inside of flywheel so I guess you could say its on mainshaft.
    I have seen them rusty, I've seen them worn, never enough to stop bike running though as it is at least 0.060~0.080" high and points only open 0.012~0.016". Could have a problem getting timing right with worn heel on points but I think he said he has new points?

    PJ

    I dabble in rocket science, when I\'m not picking my nose
    The other night I gave my girlfriend an orgasm, but, she spat it back at me

    'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

  5. #74
    Member Mitch F's Avatar
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    Parks, the condenser is very much appreciated, but I'm sure I can get one at NAPA for about the same price as you could ship me one. So thank you (really!) but I'd just as soon get a new one, and no reason for you to spend $5 when I can . I think I found a NOS replacement coil on ebay that should fit (although it's not the same part # the mounting points look to be just the same) so hopefully between these it will fix the problem.

    The points cam is indeed on the inside of the flywheel, and like I said, it's in great shape. The main bearings/seals are a thought, but the short time I had her running/riding well she revved up nicely and I would like to think that if the bearings were going I'd feel/hear it. Although I could be wrong, it's happened before

    So one more time, just for me, explain to me exactly why setting the timing/points gap isn't the same? If my stator plate doesn't rotate, then the only "timing" adjustment I have IS the points gap. The points open/close when they do, according to the gap they are set at. And when the points open/close, it fires, thus setting the timing. I'm baffled at how this could be incorrect...

    Thanks again guys

    And oh, thought you might like to see her in her current state




  6. #75
    Senior Member KeninIowa's Avatar
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    Here's my guess;

    The mark you're using IS the timing mark, where it fires. The points are just cracked at that point(continuity tester). The point gap is set where the points are at their widest. If the cam and points are cherry these two points coincide. It's not that critical, there a lot of old bikes w/the original points in them yet. They allowed a bit for rub block wear.

    My bet is that you're actually getting the point gap way too wide and not saturating the coil which may be the problem when it warms up.

    Here again just a guess. Sounds like Mr. Ken has a book...

  7. #76
    Moderator imslow's Avatar
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    thanks tex. You made my day. again
    Inertial dynos just make people cranky

  8. #77
    Senior Member kenessex's Avatar
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    Mitch,
    Setting the points gap actually affects the physical location of the points rubbing block with respect to the lobe on the cam. It isn't much, so it only allows you to have minimal adjustment in the timing. The trick is to first set the point gap when the rubbing block is at the tip of the lobe. Initially, set the gap in the middle of the acceptable range. Then rotate the crank and check the timing with a continuity tester of some sort, a meter, buzz box or powered static timing light, etc. If the timing marks line up then all is good. If they do not line up, then you can either close or open the gap, as needed, within the the specified range, to get the timing marks to line up.

    Tuning by the seat of your pants, i.e. it revs out good when adjusted, is not a reliable indicator of the overall state of tune. Until the points are set accurately the rest of the ignition system can't be diagnosed. At this point, I am not confident that the coil is your problem, although it certainly could be. I hope this helped make the relationship between gap and timing more clear.

    Ken
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  9. #78
    Senior Member parks61's Avatar
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    mr. sex is right again...
    it's all about timing, not gap.
    -parks
    I\'m not handsome

  10. #79
    Senior Member crazypj's Avatar
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    Don't know about Kawasaki but Suzuki gave timing before top dead center, still remember GP100/125, 1.87mm BTDC, need an adapter to fit spark plug hole and a 1" head DTI marked in mm.
    Timing mark on flywheel is usually 'off' slightly but works and generally won't destroy motor

    PJ
    I dabble in rocket science, when I\'m not picking my nose
    The other night I gave my girlfriend an orgasm, but, she spat it back at me

    'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

  11. #80
    Member Mitch F's Avatar
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    So I'm still hearing the same thing. There are no other adjustments, so maybe it's all in the semantics. "Timing" would be the proper reference, and "gap" is the adjustment. Because if this is the only way to adjust when it fires, it's the same thing.

    Maybe I'm just retarded, but it sounds like everyone is referring to the same thing and using different terms. If you set the gap to the middle of the given range, and then adjust it from there to get the perfect "gap" you're thus setting the timing. Seriously... I don't know why this is wrong. It doesn't make even the tiniest bit of sense to me. I can see how they would be different if you have points AND a rotating stator plate... but... but... but...

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