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Another one bites the dust...

This is a discussion on Another one bites the dust... within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; Article here: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/296719/...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member krapfever's Avatar
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    Another one bites the dust...


  2. #2
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    And buick somehow thrives, It isn't Fair!!!!!

    kidding aside (I like buicks also and had a few fast ones), Pontiac was just getting onto its feet again in terms of product when GM decided to kill it last year. the G8 GT and GXP were probably two of the finest pontiacs made in the post 1970s era, but even know few know about them because GM's marketing budget went into Chevy with the camaro and volt and cadillac with the CTS-V. When I shot the CTS-V challenge there was a G8 GXP 6speed there for me to look at (taken out of the motor pool by one of GM's brass) and that car was 1/3 of the price of a cts-v but almost as much car. Had GM invested in pontiac's advertising it may not have ended this way, but there is only so much money to go around.

    Even the 2004-2006 GTO isn't a terrible car, they just made a marketing error by calling it a GTO. Had they called it something else it might have been the world beater in sales everyone hoped, but people heard GTO and were expecting a retro car like the camaro, and that it was not.

    in other news, my father's Volt should be delivered before the end of this year.
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member krapfever's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Dodge brass tried to pull the same cheap trick with the new Charger. And they killed Plymouth.


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  5. #4
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    quote:Originally posted by krapfever



    Yeah, the Dodge brass tried to pull the same cheap trick with the new Charger. And they killed Plymouth.

    The reason it worked with the charger (those things are everywhere) is that the charger is a practical car, the GTO wasn't (although it was more practical than the 4th gen camaro). Additionally dodge primed the marketplace with the 1999 4 door concept and the magnum wagon - gave buyers time to get used to the idea. Also the new charger is an agressive looking car, something the new GTO wasn't (it looked like a rental gran am).

    1999 concept


    When dodge finally delivered on their retro promise with the challenger, they made sure that the car was practical as well. It may be the size of a full size, not a pony car, but it has a huge trunk and real 4 seats.

    This was the last GTO concept car GM put out before actually bringing the GTO back. Despite looking terribly dated (even for the 1990s) it is an aggressive looking car.




    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
    - Samuel Beckett
    A tool is just an opportunity with a handle
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  6. #5
    Senior Member oneworden's Avatar
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    It never made sense to me why they needed all of those brands under the same GM umbrella.

    Once the 80's hit all they were doing was putting body kits on cars like the Monte Carlo and Caviler to make the Grand Prix and the Sunfire. Its bad business.

    Though everyone else does it too. The VW Passat is the Audi A something, Honda probably has one too, and Ford has even done it with Land Rover.

    Pontiac is a name that should have never made it out of the 70's only because GM was making the name cheap. If GM was smarter they would have went for the retro styling with the GTO that came out and died a few years back. That car had potential, but fell on its face from being under powered and looking like a clunky grand prix.
    Did you hear about the pirate with two wooden legs?

    They caught fire and burned his ass to the ground!

  7. #6
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    There is a lot of GM internal people who agree that the change in management in pontiac in the 1980s was the worst direction the company could have taken. Until 1983, the company still used its own engine designs (or borrowed from oldsmobile in some cases) but by 1986 all pontiacs were basic GM platforms with restyling, and unfortunately 1980s GMs are some of the worst cars made. There wasn't enough brand recognition, to separate a grand am from a regal, from a lumina. However, after the GTO fiasco, pontiac threw its lot in with cadillac and most of the pontiac lineup post 2006 was based on CTS platform or the Saab 9-3 (the chevy malibu shares a platform with the Saab as well but it was an Opel design first). They also offered things that cadillac offered but chevy didn't, like retractable hardtops, VVT, and paddle/button shifting. The brand was on its way back up but really needed the marketing to push that it was a different car company than just a badge job. it takes 5 years (approx) to change the public's mind, and pontiac just didn't have that kind of time. Why 5 years? because that is how long it takes for new cars to infiltrate the used market.

    The 2004-2006 GTO however was NOT underpowered. Using LS1 and LS2 engines powering the last year of the F body, and the corvette, it was a 12 second car out of the box for under $25K. in GM's lineup only the z06 was faster. Just 5 years earlier the fastest thing with 4 seats out of GM was a 13 second LT1 Trans Am WS6. Technology moves so fast in the auto industry that just 5 years later they are midpack performance cars but 5 years before they came out the performance they offered was unheard of.
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
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    A tool is just an opportunity with a handle
    - Kevin Kelly

  8. #7
    Senior Member BB73's Avatar
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    quote:Originally posted by Geeto67


    Had GM invested in pontiac's advertising it may not have ended this way, but there is only so much money to go around.
    Not having the money to advertise is part of it. Waiting until the brand is so hurt to upgrade the cars was a bad idea and a lot of lost money too.

    Same that happened at Saturn. They stuck with the same old cars so long that lost their following. By the end they had good cars but no money to advertise them and no return customers.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Psyco Diver 69's Avatar
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    Its the same reason Oldsmobile died, up till the mid 80s Olds had the best selling car in america, they used their own engine still too (matter in fact in 78-79 GM was sued for selling Olds with chevy motors lmao) then they went from sharing basic frames and structurs to just having different grills, headlights, and bumpers. Everything else looked the same. Then they cut the advertising to olds and thier business went down (duh really, no advertising and business goes down, who would have thunk it) Same think basically happened to Pontiac, when was the last time you saw a commercial for them? Its been a rare occasion I've seen one, but look at chevy, caddy, and gmc, lots of advertising for them. Buick will be next
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  10. #9
    Senior Member coreyjdl's Avatar
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    Buick is not likely to get chopped anytime soon.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick#Buick_in_China

  11. #10
    Senior Member UngaWunga's Avatar
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    Well, I for one am glad to see the brand consolidations. I haven't seen an American car that I've wanted to buy in years, anyways. The new retro-cruiser-muscle cars look like pathetic attempts to reconnect with past glory. And what glory it was... huge bad handling cars with crap brakes that used massive amounts of fuel for the power they put out.

    The new Charger and Mustang aren't attractive to me at all. Sure, as a weekend toy the top of the line engine models might be fun to convert tires to smoke with, but there's other cars out there that do more with less.

    Buick. Oldsmobile. Pontiac. Blah, go away and make those heaps "collector cars." GMC and Dodge are two other brands I'd never look at, considering the amount of problems that people I know have with them. New cars with brake lines corroding away in 30K miles, oil pans rusting through is 50K miles, disposable steering racks and underengineering brakes that are $1K a pop to replace.... Yes, oil pans rusting through.

    Ford is the only US auto manufacture I'd consider buying a vehicle from. And I don't see anything in their current model line-up I want to own.





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