Dance monkey, dance!!! a witworth thread
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Dance monkey, dance!!! a witworth thread

This is a discussion on Dance monkey, dance!!! a witworth thread within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; I decided to create a new place for responses to Witworth, rather than trashing up the CX500 thread, since it is turning out to be ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member kenessex's Avatar
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    Dance monkey, dance!!! a witworth thread

    I decided to create a new place for responses to Witworth, rather than trashing up the CX500 thread, since it is turning out to be one of the better CX projects.

    So, lets look at a recent posting, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Witworth View Post
    This page sums up the reptilian brain comments: Archetype Discoveries Worldwide . It's not pop-anything, it's well founded science fact. We haven't left Dino behind, just got a few more lumps on our brains, an ego, and told ourselves we are clever.

    The Vincent designer and engineer Phil Irving stated many times that he calculated and designed the Vincent to handle a maximum of 150BHP without failure. That is not conjecture, it's a historical fact.

    Builders like Bakker or Egli have sold complete road or race bikes for decades. Foale endeavoured to be a manufacturer and sold a small handful I believe, and wrote a book. If he did any serious design work for a major bike race team or motorcycle manufacturer, I've never heard a trace of which ones. The picture of Foale riding a research bike with the forks on "backwards" sums up many of his efforts to me. Anyone's reactions to the red bike pictured, please write on a postcard and send them to "BBC Audience Services,PO Box 1922,Darlington,DL3 0UR" .

    Attachment 7243Attachment 7244

    As far as I can see there is no mention of any companies by name he has worked for on his website under "about" TONY FOALE DESIGNS - Home page .

    Like the CX500, frames are built in all forms for different purposes. Production bikes of years gone by were over-engineered, and with controlled flex to be able to be used for hundreds of thousands of miles with out breaking, cracking or failure from thousands of duty cycles. If I want to look at a spare and delicate, good looking frame I'll go and look at the Moto Morini 500. The CX was designed as a tourer/commuter, it was never intended to be sport bike with glamor. The Shinto spirit of surviving CXes must be chuckling like Tanuki on madness mushrooms.
    First, pointing us to a self serving .com by the marketing genius who is pushing a theory is like sending us to the Honda website to explain the point behind the Bold New Graphics on the CBR1000RR instead of why they have yet to introduce a VFR1000RR. It is marketing not science. Do you understand how evolution works? Have you considered why I asked you about the chicken and the egg? There is a point to it.
    Clotaire Rapaille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - this article is entertaining if you are truly considering the reptilian brain theory as true science. This guy is a true Barnum in the making.

    I wonder if you have difficulties comprehending how the scientific method works. Perhaps Tony Foale riding a bike with backwards forks had something to do with testing a hypothesis and collecting data.

    Trying to justify crappy frames of the past as " over-engineered, and with controlled flex to be able to be used for hundreds of thousands of miles with out breaking, cracking or failure from thousands of duty cycles." is a pretty far stretch to justify their use of inferior stampings, construction methods and cheap steel. Perhaps you will next justify Harleys use of cast Iron lugs in their frames. None of those justifications will be based on sound engineering, only on minimally acceptable standards of safety compromised by packaging, marketing, economics and styling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witworth View Post
    The fly in the ointment of the anti-glamor-puss CX500 theory is it was it was faster, longer lived and far more reliable than many of it's four stroke four cylinder Jap contemporaries of the same period. I did many miles, two-up at very close to the ton on one of the old maggots.
    I am afraid this entire statement distorts reality beyond belief.


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  2. #2
    Senior Member jaguar's Avatar
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    Maybe hack? I miss him...
    or "norton guy" from DTT? Another epic person on the web.

    i haven't been able to keep pace with the posts so I'm a little lost on this guy
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    Some times things come around that are so singularly inept it gives you a whole new appreciation for the ept

  3. #3
    Senior Member crazypj's Avatar
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    The CX was designed as a high rpm engine.
    Keep it over 5,000 rpm and it lasts way longer than having it below that rpm.
    Honda ran one at 10,000rpm for over a week without a break and didn't have any problems. (although the dual skin exhaust pipes did get red hot)
    In my experience the issues were mainly because people think 'V-twin - Harley -low rpm torque' which just destroys 'everything'.
    HD has the same problem with it's twin cam motors as Honda had in 1978, the low rpm load reversals trash the cam chain tensioners and various other parts
    It wasn't as fast as Suzuki or Kawasaki 550 and just about even with the CB550 plus, being shaft drive, the handling could get a bit 'strange' if you shut off in a corner
    Now I have to go find the thread and see what I'm talking about
    I dabble in rocket science, when I\'m not picking my nose
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    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    :I just want him to post some pictures of his motorcycles.

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    Senior Member dirkchecken's Avatar
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    I like my shocks like I like my women. Cheap and Chinese.

  7. #6
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    Not Your motorcycle, Witworth's motorcycles :/

  8. #7
    Senior Member Hoofhearted's Avatar
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    What I find interesting is that Witworth says about the reptilian brain "its a well founded science fact". Yet when I go to the web site it states "the three brain THEORY". When did theory become well founded science fact? When I read shit like that whatever else is written after that becomes irrelevant.
    Don\'t cry because its over. Smile because it happened

  9. #8
    Senior Member hillsy's Avatar
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    lol....a witworth thread...

  10. #9
    Banned Witworth's Avatar
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    Harley used cast malleable iron lugs,tomahawks and headstocks in their frames for nearly a century, they never slowed Cal Rayborn down road racing, or prevented H-D dominating flat track racing with production based frames with cast tomahawk swingarm/motor mount lugs since about 1945. They probably only stopped using tomahawks in Sportster frames about ten years ago. Big Twin Harley frames were about the strongest and most rigid frames made anywhere in the world for probably half a century until the GoldWing frame appeared. H-D isn't smart, but it ain't dumb either.
    It's a bit sad about Harley's latest aircooled motors, they have all kind of weird, poorly designed and cheaply made failures now. It seems they were at their peak with the Evo motor in about '95, and then it was all downhill from there. I wouldn't ride any recent Harley now if you gave me 5K to fix all the faults that should be solved at the factory, and paid me to ride it. A Victory, Indian or Bolt would be way better IMHO.

    I've revved CX500's to close to 13K Rpm in top gear with no apparent wear or damage. In fact at those revs the pushrods may be flexing to the extent that they alter the duration of the cam timing, valve bounce and produce even more power by accident. CX's also have that old single or V-twin trick of being tractable and torquey and out accelerating multis, while they are revving like dentist drills and getting nowhere fast.

    Science is all about theory. Established theories, until proven different. Science is all flux, and uncertainty. That Clotaire Rapaille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia fellow is entertaining, but here's someone with far greater scientific credentials and credibility: Triune brain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why people waste time on Foale and his efforts, that never ended up in any production motorcycle (as far as I know), is beyond me. He wrote a book, and built a few specials. You can't point to his efforts in people's garages and say things like: that frame was made by Dick Mann, that swingarm was designed by Bimota's Tamburini, that complete bikes rolling chassis was designed and built from scratch by Fritz Egli. And furthermore, he sure hasn't got half a century of racing success and race chassis knowledge and modification like Mert Lawwill. He's a qualified nuclear scientist slide rule that probably spent the best years of his early life working at "Weapons Research base" down in Australia on how to destroy half the planet with nuclear devices and whip rockets to Russia: good vibes huh?

  11. #10
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    That's all very interesting, but I still want to see a picture of your bike :|

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