As long as you are expressing your inner self
This is a discussion on Hipster hatin within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; Originally Posted by Bratrace26 If I like the look then that's all that matters. Café racers don't need second hand approval its all personal. make ...
As long as you are expressing your inner self
I am Derby\'s Bitch
Some times things come around that are so singularly inept it gives you a whole new appreciation for the ept
If it is all personal, then why the need to share it on the internet? I mean presumably the purpose of sharing is to find like minded people, but what if the people you find in the hobby aren't like minded to you? Do you see it from their point of view? your above statements indicate you do not, you believe the above and therefore it is right a good and all encompassing and you're right and we're not. But the truth is you are the outlier, not us.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
- Samuel BeckettA tool is just an opportunity with a handle
- Kevin Kelly
there's a few reasons.
i haven't been here long, but it seems this forum had its origins in a strong association with historic racing, where the modification of old bikes is based on making them go, stop and turn better, and the result being judged in the completely objective arena of the racetrack. it can consume massive amounts of time and money when you get to the pointy end of the field, and when you see a 1100+cc cb750 with cartridges inside the forks and rc30 chassis geometry it sort of becomes a self parody. at the less pointy end it becomes about making things work well using mostly std parts assembled well. for the people involved, it becomes about experience, attention to detail, ingenuity and mechanical knowledge. sometimes those at the less pointy end move towards the pointy end due to the combination of these things being developed and perfected over time. and done without the money spent by those at the top of the tree, and this in itself brings a certain esteem. generally how it looks is somewhat secondary. not unimportant, but form follows function.
it can also breed a certain amount of arrogance. which is what makes people with experience that could be shared without attitude look like arseholes.
then you get lots of mostly young guys come along following the trend of buying some old piece of shit (ie, a honda that starts with a c) and proclaim they're going to strip it and turn it into a cafe racer. when you come from a mechanical background, and gain experience with this sort of thing, the stripping is clearly exposed as a young man's (or woman's) folly, and the emphasis becomes getting things to work first, rather than making it a huge pile of parts without any knowledge of whether or not those parts will actually work once reassembled. spending lots of money on pointless crap is another way to put it. or not seeing the worn points for the detabbed and hooped frame perhaps.
and hooped frame is a good example. when someone hoops a frame on dotheton for instance, they'll mostly get told the line looks great. only one or two will point out that the hoop is 3" away from the tyre and the shocks give 4.5" of wheel travel. which is then often met will "i'll see how it goes" or "i think it'll be ok" or "well, everyone else does it". all of which makes the hooper look like the dipshit they are.
i personally have no issue with modifying bikes simply to make them look the way you want them too. but often this modifying brings compromises with the performance, be it engine or chassis. if you are aware of the compromises and their impact, you can make allowances for them and get around them quite safely. for instance, you can make reduced travel suspension work quite well with some changing of springs rates based on measured vehicle performance and requirements. but not "i got some progressive springs and works performance shocks for $199 delivered!", which seems to be quite popular. so, if the modifyer is unaware of the realistic impacts of their customising and when advice is dispensed about those impacts by those with experience the reaction is "i'll see how it goes" or "i think it'll be ok" or "well, everyone else does it", when clearly it won't be ok, then the adviser will often treat the advisee like the dipshit they are. and invariably the term hipster will be involved, as it's just the generic stereotyping insult dished out by the experienced to the young and un in the cafe racer forum world.
you might ask why the experienced don't just dispense the required info without the 'tude. well, that's because after you type it ten times and none of the hipster dipshits listen well then it's just easier to insult them and hope they fuck off. less typing involved.
those that do listen often become quite skillful at the whole thing, and learn a whole load of stuff and go on to produce some quality motorcycles. how they then treat the next generation of hipster dipshits is probably a simple reflection of greater humanity.
altho, some would argue the current social media generation and mentality of sharing and receiving makes people simply assume that everyone else is interested in their piece of shit and will care about it is the basis of the issue. if you follow the ideals of never overestimating the importance of your opinion in someone else's life, never mistaking your opinion for the truth and never requiring the approval of others to feel good about yourself you'll probably get on just fine.
Well said, Brad. (BTW - are you Brad Black as in bikeboy.org? If so thanks for the time you've put into creating your site, I've spent a bit of time there myself)
As for hipster hating, for me it's more of a newbie thing. This attitude that it's all easy and the details don't really matter. For someone who has spent thousands of hours and even more dollars learning about things it's more than a little insulting to have someone argue about the formula for figuring out the displacement of an engine. It's simple math. And you still argue? Granted that's one example but the gist of it is, SO many people come in acting like all they need is an internet account and $25 to build the next great "cafe racer", and that if they don't understand some detail it must not be all that important anyway.
So.. you can either try to remain patient with people, you can get a little less patient and show more "tough love", or you can just read the insanity, shake your head, and realize it's not worth the time to type a response. Lately I've been trying not to respond because as it turns out even when I'm trying NOT to be dick, people get offended when you point out some pitfalls of their grand plan, or ask questions they haven't got answers too. Brad's example of frame hoops is spot on.
The Mighty Monza Jr. Thread: https://www.caferacer.net/forum/proje...r-project.html
Think the most annoying thing for me is the ammount of bikes that are being messed up by it. If it was just a few people here and there hacking their bikes up that'd be one thing, Darwin has a way of dealing with those people - but it's the amount of people who completely fuck up a bike to achieve a style, and then try to sell it for 5x times what they bought it for that piss me off.
Ignorance Is Bliss
definitely, I used to find cb750's on craigslist every week, usually unmolested, now it's maybe one a month and half are listed as "cafe project" i.e. "I chopped the frame up, took the top end apart, but I'm including some clubmans and a $50 cafe seat" -asking $2500
I concur. I wanted an early cb750 project. But when they cost 2/3s what a similar condition Norton/BSA/Triumph does.... why bother?
Honda S90 (box of parts)
Honda CB750C (runs)
The Others (mostly rolling wounded)
My collar may be a little frayed, and maybe I need a shoeshine. But nobody\'s got a mortgage on my soul. I own it. Free and clear. -Phil Lovecraft