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Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet

This is a discussion on Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; It's mostly bollocks. We like what we like, any time spent thinking deeply and spiritually about shit is wasted and will get you nowhere. Just ...

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Thread: Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet

  1. #21
    Senior Member Andyshep's Avatar
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    It's mostly bollocks. We like what we like, any time spent thinking deeply and spiritually about shit is wasted and will get you nowhere. Just enjoy the ride, you only get so long.

  2. #22
    Ews
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyshep View Post
    It's mostly bollocks. We like what we like, any time spent thinking deeply and spiritually about shit is wasted and will get you nowhere. Just enjoy the ride, you only get so long.
    Well said. Thinking too deeply about anything makes my brain hurt lol
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  3. #23
    Ews
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    talk about waxing poetic. I made it through the first few lines before I had to stop.

    Zen in the Art of Motorcycling
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

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  5. #24
    Senior Member 83XLX's Avatar
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    I read the book back in the middle 1970s, so that was shortly after it had hit the stores. I thought a lot of it was interesting, and some of it I didn't get. I read it again about 10 years later and more of it made sense to me. That said, the book was on my mind the 3 months I spent last year resurrecting my old Honda 350 from 20+ years of neglect. I got the bike new in 1969 while in high school, so it was like becoming re-acquainted with an old friend. I don't know about Zen, but bringing it back to life was an experience that went beyond simple mechanic work.
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  6. #25
    Ews
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclocrossfool View Post
    i made it as far as Demi Moore. are there naked photos of her? if not thats as far as i go
    I tried to read further, but it just gets worse. He starts using words to make himself sound intelligent. Started to sound like a love letter to his CBR. All I could imagine is some douche bag who likes to pose shirtless for everything, even when shirtless in inappropriate for the situation.
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  7. #26
    Senior Member DesmoDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ews View Post
    talk about waxing poetic. I made it through the first few lines before I had to stop.

    Zen in the Art of Motorcycling
    [rant]Dear anyone who starts spouting HP to weight ratios of bikes vs cars.

    Please compare the ratio to whatever using street weights... WITH RIDER/DRIVER.

    The weight of the rider in gear makes a boatload more difference to the bike's ratio than the weight of the driver does to the car's. [/rant]

    Sorry, pet peeve of mine. I realize the numbers still favor the bike BTW, it's the principal of the thing.
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  8. #27
    Ews
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesmoDog View Post
    [rant]Dear anyone who starts spouting HP to weight ratios of bikes vs cars.

    Please compare the ratio to whatever using street weights... WITH RIDER/DRIVER.

    The weight of the rider in gear makes a boatload more difference to the bike's ratio than the weight of the driver does to the car's. [/rant]

    Sorry, pet peeve of mine. I realize the numbers still favor the bike BTW, it's the principal of the thing.

    It is a valid point. Depending on the bike and rider combination, the rider can add up to 50% or more in weight. For instance, my KZ440 is like 500lbs (if that) without me on it. It has 22HP (or did brand new) that makes about 88HP per ton, which is totally underwhelming.
    Add me into that equation, approx. 192lbs, round up to 200 even for gear, and it drops to 62.7HP per ton. Even less impressive, but just me on the bike creates almost 30% decrease in power. My 87' Mustang GT however had 225HP and weighed about 3200lbs, that makes about 140hp per ton, again add me and some clothes, and we get 132hp per ton, that makes a decrease of about 6%. Much better. Really people should be looking at the torque specs too. IMO torque should be at least 15% greater than HP. My GT had approx 25% more torque than HP, about 300lbs.
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  9. #28
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    The title of the book is misleading. The motorcycle maintenance tasks and comparison to his hands off BMW riding friend only lasts for a short time. Even the search to define quality isn't the main idea of the book and is revisited as the set-up to his own break down and the aftermath of it which is playing out as his cross country trip with his son. The book is much more interesting when it addresses Pirsig's own experiences and his feelings and observations of his son than the bs search for quality or active/passive approach to motorcycle maintenance. I don't think the book would have been published today in its present form. It is really 3 separate ideas, only 1 of which is actually interesting and revealed in a clever way. The problem is you have to wade through chapters of drivel to get to the main idea and the interesting story which has nothing to do with motorcycles, quality or buddhism.

    Scott
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  10. #29
    Senior Member CurbTiger's Avatar
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    From the wiki page, so it's gotta be true:
    "In its introduction, Pirsig explains that, despite its title, "it should in no way be associated with that great body of factual information relating to orthodox Zen Buddhist practice. It's not very factual on motorcycles, either.""

    This book should be taken in the context of the mid 60's, presumably when it was written. Eastern mysticism was still an exotic idea. Geez, if one wasn't affiliated with some denominations
    local church, most likely you were a Commie. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that "Zen" had some element of novelty. Now, shit, Zen is bandied about like Kleenex, CafeRacers, Nazi's & competent presidential hopefuls. Everythings fuckin' Zen. Personally, I'm more Animistic Daoist.
    We take Zen for granted. And, the ideas that Pirsig introduced with that book. Well, how about, made old ideas more accessible. Analogous to The Life of Pi, Iron John or The Celestine Prophecy. Boy, dating myself there. Haven't wandered into the self-help section at Powell's for a long time. Dunno what's the latest craze there now. That shit is such a racket, the "Self-Help" genre of bookish things. And Pirsig helped start it. And, gawd dammit, people still think it has something to do with motorcycles. Perhaps that's the "Zen" of Zen & Art. But it doesn't. Not really. Yep.
    Let's have a CafeRacer field trip to see Mr. Pirsig. He's still kickin'. Ask him why "people" still think Zen & the Art has something to do with bikes.
    For homework tonight, a 736 word essay comparing & contrasting Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance with The Song of the Sausage Creature will be written for our next class meeting. Please present finished paper on continuous roll, standard width paper. Please do not capitalize. Punctuation is OK.

    NE

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  11. #30
    Ews
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurbTiger View Post
    From the wiki page, so it's gotta be true:

    So one of my personal hero's, Randy Pausch (one of the pioneers of V.R. and a professor at Carnegie Melon University, died a few years ago) was asked to write an entry on Virtual Reality for both Wiki and Encyclopedia Britannica. He stated that with E.B. he wrote his entry, sent it off and they published it with no questions. With Wiki they questioned every letter and asked for revisions a few times. Granted that is just his experience, but I personally have seen where Wiki is pretty good about taking down false information.
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

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