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Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet

This is a discussion on Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; actually centrifugal force is pushing the bike to the outside of the turn in a straight line. The tire's traction is providing centripetal force to ...

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Thread: Zen and the art of talking waxing poetic about motorcycles on the internet

  1. #41
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    actually centrifugal force is pushing the bike to the outside of the turn in a straight line. The tire's traction is providing centripetal force to move it to follow the curve. Think of a rock being swung on a string. The centrifugal force is forcing the rock into a straight line and thus tensions the string. The string then provides equal force to make the rock turn. the bike is the rock, traction/handling is the string, and the arc of travel is making it through the turn. Remove the sting/traction and the bike /rock doesn't make the turn. When centrifugal force exceeds centripetal force (as provided by the maximum amount of tension the string can provide) the string breaks and the rock flys off and hits someone in the face. When centripetal force is greater than centrifugal force the arc of travel is extremely sharp.

    And now my head hurts from thinking.

    in a car you want flat handling because it maximizes the amount of traction, which means you can add more centrifugal force in the form of velocity. On a bike leaning over means that the centrifugal force is pushing on a lower profile and has less leverage to move the object relative to the point of traction. Cars that lean usually have a high center of gravity thus providing centrifugal force more leverage to push the car to the outside of the turn until centrifugal and centripal reach equilibrium.

    if you think about it, motorcycles have more in common with airplanes than cars. the car's weight is mostly static, a motorcycle's weight is dynamic to the forces exerted on it because it moves in 3 dimensions.

    G-force is a unit of measurement. AS in how many times the force of earth's gravity is being exerted on an object. Saying the G-forces affect his handling is the same as saying the lbs are really affecting his weight.
    Last edited by Geeto67; 07-19-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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  2. #42
    Ews
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeto67 View Post
    actually centrifugal force is pushing the bike to the outside of the turn in a straight line. The tire's traction is providing centripetal force to move it to follow the curve. Think of a rock being swung on a string. The centrifugal force is forcing the rock into a straight line and thus tensions the string. The string then provides equal force to make the rock turn. the bike is the rock, traction/handling is the string, and the arc of travel is making it through the turn. Remove the sting/traction and the bike /rock doesn't make the turn. And now my head hurts from thinking.

    in a car you want flat handling because it maximizes the amount of traction, which means you can add more centrifugal force in the form of velocity. On a bike leaning over means that the centrifugal force is pushing on a lower profile and has less leverage to move the object relative to the point of traction.

    Sounds like the same thing I am saying, in different words. I think we are concentrating on the wrong part of my post. We should really be talking about all this waxing off that happens among hipsters and their Zen loaded motorcycles that are uber spiritual
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  3. #43
    Senior Member Tanshanomi's Avatar
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    I tried to read "Zen and the Art..." and quickly decided that Persig was a self-important, overly-melodramatic navel-gazer who wasn't worth my time.

    As a young man I got a whole lot more lessons about motorcycles and the nature of life — as well as enjoyable reading — from Ted Simon's Jupiter's Travels.

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  5. #44
    Ews
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    I don't think that any one book on motorcycling is going to fundamentally change my world view, but then I have not read a lot of motorcycle books, so who knows
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  6. #45
    Senior Member Stephen J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ews View Post
    Again, rounding back to Zen...

    Zen is basically achieved through extensive meditation, or at least that 's my understanding. I can see a possible link between riding and Zen, but it might be a bit of a stretch so bear with me... and forgive me if there is any poetic waxing on or waxing off.

    When I ride, I ride for lots of reasons. Sometimes I do it to get from A to B, sometimes to enjoy a beautiful day on the road, sometimes for no reason other than to ride, and sometimes I need to clear my mind. When i am riding to clear my mind it is easy for me to let the weight of the world fall away and I just feel the road and my bikes connection to it. As i lean into a turn I can feel the pull of gravity on my body and my bike, a little more throttle and the bike sits down into the turn and I flow through it. When I am riding like this, it is just me, the bike is an extension of me and through it I am connected to the world. In that moment my mind is as clear as it ever gets.

    I do not meditate, I don't have time for that shit. My wife does sometimes, it's a technique to clear her mind. So if meditating is clearing you mind, and my mind is cleared when riding...maybe I just need to spend more time riding, and buying more bikes to ride, to achieve Zen. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me anyway.
    I had the "art" of active meditation explained to me when someone watched me playing guitar at a gig and I kinda got what they were trying to say. The blank stare on my face was because I was in a sense somewhere else or "in the moment" not the place . I can see how that would translate to riding a motorcycle. The poem from the start of the movie Road I think is in a way describing the same thing . I snowboard as well and get that same sensation. Call it meditation, zen or just having a fuckin good time. I don't know but I wouldn't dismiss it all as rubbish iether.
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  7. #46
    Senior Member DesmoDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ews View Post
    Sorry, perhaps I should have said G force instead of gravity. Although technically the centrifugal force is pulling you down, like gravity does, it just changes where "down is". It is how bikes can race around slanted tracks, the faster you go through the turn the more G force pulls down on the bike planting it into the turn. Unless you go too fast and then its just ugly.

    Well... technically "centrifugal force" is fictitious, and "down" should never change once you've chosen your frame of reference but we're just proving my point even further so I'll shut up now.
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  8. #47
    Ews
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    Your killing my zen vibe man LOL
    Dream as if you live forever, Live as if you die today.~ James Dean

    I feel the need, the need for speed.~ Mavrick (Tom Cruise before he was a big ol' bag of crazy)

  9. #48
    Senior Member Tanshanomi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen J View Post
    I had the "art" of active meditation explained to me when someone watched me playing guitar at a gig and I kinda got what they were trying to say. The blank stare on my face was because I was in a sense somewhere else or "in the moment" not the place . I can see how that would translate to riding a motorcycle. The poem from the start of the movie Road I think is in a way describing the same thing . I snowboard as well and get that same sensation. Call it meditation, zen or just having a fuckin good time. I don't know but I wouldn't dismiss it all as rubbish iether.
    The two books on Zen I read all the way through (as a much younger man) were Nothing Special by Charlotte Joko Beck and On Zen by Thomas Merton. They taught me enough to know that I won't ever pursue it, but I can understand it enough to respect what it offers. The way Beck described "being in the moment" was to observe and react to what is happening around you as it happens, without dividing a part of your mind off to another task, such as evaluating if it is pleasant or unpleasant, deciding whether it matches your prior expectations of the moment, or considering what might be happening somewhere else at that moment.

    I can see how riding might facilitate that state, but for me it probably doesn't very often.

  10. #49
    Banned pwalo's Avatar
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    I read the book a couple of years ago. Never really felt the need before that as I'd spent years fixing, building, riding, living bikes and as a reasonably educated man had studied some of the vastly colourful concept of religion, philosophy and spiritualism. Kinda thought I knew what it was mostly about so didn't care.

    Two months before I read it, as the proud father of a two year old girl and a business owner struggling to make family ends meet I had a nervous breakdown and spent a month being medicated back to planet earth in a mental institution. My relationship with the missus changed completely (read ended whilst locked up) and I emerged the other side a bit bewildered. About a month after I got home a good friend of mine just handed me the book and gave me one of his looks. Needless to say I read it and enjoyed it for the yarn whilst taking a lot of what the guy had to say on board.

    as far as zen goes you can achieve a state of almost complete intuition (think about the word) by meditation if you wish. you can do it whilst playing a guitar, or indeed making one. hell you can even do it on a motorcycle..... it's about being there in the moment being completely aware of everything you need to be aware of to make the chosen instrument play the finest tune. Hell, riders like valentino rossi invest a lot of time and effort into zen and mindfulness because that's how to go really bloody fast. He's not thinking about naked photo's of demi moore or whether to have pizza or pasta for tea whilst dancing on a tightrope. He's there in the moment, using his agility to bend the rules a bit with inertial forces by dancing all over the bike. Problably lolling his tongue out in his helmet (watch any good drummer!!) at the same time in an apparently trance like state. Riding a bike on the road is almost as complex what with surface unpredictability and traffic unpredictability. A good rider is intuitively scanning and changing his now and predicting a little of the future but not too far. same as a guy playing a guitar ensuring the note he's playing sounds the best it can whilst being aware of the immediate few up and coming notes to be played. Same as the guy building the guitar. shaping the bridge to bond to the body in the perfect spot. He's not thinking about the fret board or anything else. He's got them under consideration but he's there in the moment, tongue lolling out, tools in hand doing the job the best he can. This is probably a handy time to go with the artisan thing as that is one of those things you train yourself to do intuitively. People are seldom inspired enough to really want to learn just for the sake of being really good at something and sadly a lot of the artisans get fed up of teaching someone for five years only for them to end their apprenticeship thinking they know it all and then set up on their own. This is why I gravitate towards racers. They are competitive and don't share the best bits sometimes but at grass roots level it's all about getting everyone racing so resources are shared for the greater good. We should maybe understand this more as a planet and we'd get less fighting and more progress.

    Anyway back to the whole zen thing. Most people are doing it without even knowing it whether that be walking down the street aware of their present surroundings or cleaning a motorcycle carburettor whilst engaging in what they are doing. Some people aren't however. There are people walking down the street playing pokemon go or texting their hipster friends, blissfully unaware of the real "now" (you might have seen them bumping into lamp posts). There are people sprinkling glitter on café racers thinking of how badass their creation will be whilst dismantling carbs on their gravel drive. The former I usually shoulder check and then as they wake up I jump straight in with "sorry mate I wasn't looking where I was going" They either accept the apology without question, fall straight back to sleep and walk off texting; back in their own little distracted world or they give me a sort of funny look as the penny drops and walk off a little more aware of where they are going. The latter, from what I gather, get a verbal shoulder check by geeto when they appear here asking for advice; then he jumps straight in (sometimes) with a little gem of shit hot advice. Sometimes the penny drops and they carry on a little more aware, other times they just fall straight back to sleep and get buried by a tirade of (often quite amusing) "advice" lol.

    So about two years after reading the book I find myself on a better footing, good friendship with the ex, awesome relationship with my nearly five year old daughter, nearly ready to run the business up on all four cylinders, mentally more in control (I won't say stable) than I think I've ever been and it has almost nothing to do with that book although this word "quality" keeps rearing it's ugly head.......

    Perfect example..... Thursday and Friday I spent "quality" time with my daughter. we bought a shitload of plasticene and some card and spent thurs making little models and a set and then on Friday we took it all to my mates and shot a short stop-motion animation using his expensive camera gear. I spent 48 hours just lost in the moment (whilst being aware of looking after a 5 year old) and so did young betty. I said quality time and that was what it was even though it seemed to pass in but a moment. where the "quality" was I think, was in the consideration and trying to do the job the best I could so that betty had fun and was inspired a little. My memory of the quality is the enjoyment I/we gained from the experience (crude as the process was)

    I've been reading into mindfulness more of late and just trying to be more aware of what I'm doing and I guess that's all the book, zen and everything else boils down to....... awareness. when you are fully aware of what you are doing then you've got more than half a chance of doing it right. That's my take on it and hopefully will let you bunch of loonys understand a bit more about me.

    As for my not too distant future plans I think I'm gonna build my bike, buy some hipster clothes and race my scruffy ass down the local café....... have you seen how hot hipster chicks are and how into cool bikes and the guys that ride them???? I'm off to get me some poontang and enjoy the rollercoaster!!!!! fuck what anyone else thinks!!!!!

  11. #50
    Banned pwalo's Avatar
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