gasoline ...... 10%ethanol to imbibe or stay sober?
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gasoline ...... 10%ethanol to imbibe or stay sober?

This is a discussion on gasoline ...... 10%ethanol to imbibe or stay sober? within the General forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; all right then ,opinions, facts and any insults you can spare ..well i'd be much obliged for any of it..... inverted in order a plus ...

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Thread: gasoline ...... 10%ethanol to imbibe or stay sober?

  1. #1
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    gasoline ...... 10%ethanol to imbibe or stay sober?

    all right then ,opinions, facts and any insults you can spare ..well i'd be much obliged for any of it..... inverted in order a plus
    i can get alcohol free premium here and although my machine doesn't really need it ,the octane part
    and its not a cummuter bike, i like to ride 100-200 miles a time on the narrow mountain roads on day trips for pleasure when i can and the extra cost is not an issue for me
    occaisionally i will need an extra gallon from a 10% eth pump to get back to the barn,even with the larger cap tank on it now
    if you were deciding and had similar needs/conditions as above would you use it mostly over the 10% ethonal in the other pumps ?
    the machine is my old 350 honda twin special fresh bore 1.5mm overrsize with aftermarket wiseco 9.5 comp ratio spec pistons half a point over stock i think,electronic ignition full system, advance and trigger full straight through custom exhaust but not a silly fat piped build just 1mm larger id at the ex port than stock
    and tunable intake trumpets in a one off airbox on cb750ko 29mm keihin slide valve carbs
    NOS head NOS honda oem fat cam,with 10.5k rev ceiling compared to after 1970 honda went milder with 9.5k rev ceiling
    i will be running it hard trying to wring the neck off the abortion

  2. #2
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    What, no mention of valves?
    Your motor was designed in an era when typical pump fuel contained lead additives, the purpose of adding ethanol was to replace TEL that is no longer used. Both additives increase compression inside the engine by reducing the occurrence of a cold flame front which leads to incomplete combustion of the fuel and thereby reduces engine knock, TEL also addressed issues of valves and seats micro welding together which was causing premature valve wear in early engines. Poppet valves on modern engines designed to run non-additive fuel are hardened or feature sodium cooled valve stems. If octane rating is not a concern in this application :/ which I can't see why it suddenly isn't, and you have a motor that was intended to operate on leaded fuel, which I assume yours was, then you still need to select a fuel or mechanical feature that addresses all of the other issues that can arise from running non-additive fuel in your old bone motor.

  3. #3
    jcw
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    I think there are two main issues with ethanol.

    First is that ethanol is "corrosive" or reacts with metals. Aluminum particularly. And it has different compatibilities with the rubber found in various seals and lines than fuel, causing them to possibly fail earlier.

    Second is ethanol has a lower energy content and requires a richer mixture.

    Also, ethanol containing gasoline attracts water. If the bike sits, the system is more likely to corrode.

    Modern cars are designed with seals and rubber parts that are ethanol tolerant. Closed loop fuel systems and ignition systems compensate for the leaner fuel mixtures.
    Older carb'd bikes, not so much.

    That said, all we have around chicago is ethanol blend. No ethanol free for hundreds of miles.



    Anyone use any of those fuel additives for ethanol?
    Last edited by jcw; 02-04-2018 at 09:53 AM.

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    jcw
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    https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

    I forgot that the local racetrack has etoh free in Joliet, il.
    Last edited by jcw; 02-04-2018 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #5
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrialsRider View Post
    What, no mention of valves?
    Your motor was designed in an era when typical pump fuel contained lead additives, the purpose of adding ethanol was to replace TEL that is no longer used. Both additives increase compression inside the engine by reducing the occurrence of a cold flame front which leads to incomplete combustion of the fuel and thereby reduces engine knock, TEL also addressed issues of valves and seats micro welding together which was causing premature valve wear in early engines. Poppet valves on modern engines designed to run non-additive fuel are hardened or feature sodium cooled valve stems. If octane rating is not a concern in this application :/ which I can't see why it suddenly isn't, and you have a motor that was intended to operate on leaded fuel, which I assume yours was, then you still need to select a fuel or mechanical feature that addresses all of the other issues that can arise from running non-additive fuel in your old bone motor.
    awesome thanks you opened my eyes because i was ignorant on the octane issue for one !
    it must be that you have leaned to correctly re-translate what the translaters originally did wrongly i now learn when translating the ..well i guess i have heard of if it its the different accents of the jap perfectures they are like our states i guess ,turns out they are more like us lol than we thought
    beyond sighyanareah the raw fish flesh munchers on the coast south not north coast mind you,well them on the south according to my best known jap regional pefecture dialiect inflection expert
    them on the south they say ...now its funny, gets me to giggling every time
    they say them southern paddle tails are so ganked out on raw fish flesh that its dificult to understand them..as if hahaha they were speaking with there gills full
    so yeah honda being from that region i can see where the fsm and all honda manuals clearly stating 87 octane or regular gas for the vast majority of hondas ever built \
    i can see where they must have that part mis re translated that could easily happen knowing the facts
    i dunno you are so smart to have over the last 45 years comer to realize the trajedy of so many honda motorcycle having valve seat fail...,that must be common knowledge....gahhhh its embarrassing
    forb the badly needed lead my father god rest his sole ,he blessed me with a draw full of soft fat short mechanical pensil leads specifically for mechanical machine and vehicle designers which he was ..the best any company could hope to employ
    any way i just drinkin some stinking fresh ground here by me coffee beans coffee and by god that grindr blitzers the super soft ethyl pensil leads to a fine powder in short order
    i was thinking an eightball per tank would surely do ? i could cut it ,but never for my friends
    oh it has nos oem honda valves

  7. #6
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XB33BSA View Post
    ... oh it has nos oem honda valves
    From what era? <- relative to fuel additives, or do you figure Honda poppet valves and seats have not changed one bit in 50 plus years.

    Your post was to open a discussion on fuel additives; kinda hard to explore that topic without first understanding how the freakin fuel additives came to exist and what they are intended to do and if you already know all the answers why are you asking such stupid questions?

  8. #7
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    If you run low on fuel and your favourite fuel formulation is not available you have one simple choice :/ run what is available or call a tow truck.

  9. #8
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    i was never concerned about the valves or seats because 100% set in stone common knowledge non issue
    if my fingers were chopped of i would have the issue count done zero
    show me how additives got mentioned
    i was only asking what would you do
    i have already been using the 92 pure it works great makes power but i am not a dyno
    my tank is alumunum would it be best to use plastic utensils
    i would politely suggtest you quit trying to read others minds why? because fuck you thats why

  10. #9
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XB33BSA View Post
    ...
    show me how additives got mentioned ...
    In the title of the thread!


    Zooooom !
    ... that is the sound of yet another post completely going over your head

  11. #10
    Senior Member Sabre Cafe's Avatar
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    IMO, carbs = ethanol free whenever possible.

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