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This is a discussion on Hello from Denver within the NEW MEMBERS READ HERE! forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; I honestly enjoy the feedback, but on the other hand, I didn’t make any claims that what my son and I are doing is better ...

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  1. #11
    Junior Member winmag4582001's Avatar
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    I honestly enjoy the feedback, but on the other hand, I didn’t make any claims that what my son and I are doing is better than anyone else, and to be fair, I’ve seen expensive shops here in Denver kick out some seriously sub par work at astronomical prices.
    Many of the parts are fleabay specials. When we’ve been asked about them (shocks, headlight, controls) our honest response is “it’s cheap shit”. Again, to be fair, I don’t see a lot of kids going out and using their own money to buy a $600 bike, dump another $600 building it and then going for a ride. Locally he’s gotten nothing but praise for his builds, even hardcore guys give him props for doing his own work and offer the same advice as you guys have here on the forum.
    We’re going to keep playing with motorcycles between car builds. When we get the 1100 and K100 done we’ll post some pics.
    Fenix likes this.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    I honestly enjoy the feedback, but on the other hand, I didn’t make any claims that what my son and I are doing is better than anyone else,
    It isn't about who you are in competition with or whether you are doing something "better" than anyone else. It's about doing an objectively good job building a safe and well built custom motorcycle that has actual improvements. Every genre of motorcycle has an ethos, an underlying purpose that should be held in mind. For this end of the hobby and these motorcycles objective value is garnered not just by how cool it looks, but how well it functions. If you fail at function then all you built is another chopper, regardless of how it looks.

    to very loosely paraphrase Hemingway: there is no nobility in being superior as compared to others - nobility comes in being superior to your former self through education and self improvement. this applies as much to motorcycles as it does to anything else in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    and to be fair, I’ve seen expensive shops here in Denver kick out some seriously sub par work at astronomical prices.
    I have no argument with that. The internet and social media has made everyone with a dream and the willingness to assemble a half ass custom motorcycle think they are gods gift to customizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    Many of the parts are fleabay specials. When we’ve been asked about them (shocks, headlight, controls) our honest response is “it’s cheap shit”.
    Cheap =/= Shit. Shit = shit. The great part about old motorcycles is that there are plenty who have figured out how to work parts cross reference tables and to be resourceful when the green resource is in short supply. For instance that brake upgrade I mentioned - you can pull that off for less than $50 if you are cunning, and it is meaningful and adds value to your riding experience. Buying shitty parts just because they are cheap an look cool, well I'm sorry to say that's just lazy, esp when there are tutorials on how to make those parts less shitty. here is a tutorial on how to take the shit out of your shitty shocks, and it even shows you how to make the tools you need:

    https://www.caferacer.net/forum/tips...ap-shocks.html

    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    Again, to be fair, I don’t see a lot of kids going out and using their own money to buy a $600 bike, dump another $600 building it and then going for a ride.
    It's happening all across the country, and to be fair it's good that kids learn to do this stuff. the idea though is to not stop learning. It's not to "call it done" just because it looks like every other bike on instagram, it's to push to learn new skills and keep evolving with the bike. ok he made it to step one, he's got a mildly custom bike with a lot of shortcomings, time to learn how to address those shortcomings. It's great he bought another bike and all, but finish your dinner before getting a second helping.

    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    Locally he’s gotten nothing but praise for his builds, even hardcore guys give him props for doing his own work and offer the same advice as you guys have here on the forum.
    Praise is very narrow in it's value and almost worthless in a broad sense. It's a great motivator, but you don't learn from praise, and honestly, praise from people who are just like the way it looks is empty. I don't know who these "hardcore" people are and frankly, sure if he can use that to stay motivated to keep learning then great, but you learn from criticism. You learn from overcoming failure, and right now I see a lot of opportunities to improve the motorcycle and learn skills for very little amount of money and a medium investment in time.


    Quote Originally Posted by winmag4582001 View Post
    We’re going to keep playing with motorcycles between car builds. When we get the 1100 and K100 done we’ll post some pics.
    Just don't fall into the trap of thinking what applies to cars applies to motorcycles. It isn't and motorcycles are way less forgiving than cars. Rub a tire in a car and it costs you money, some time, maybe makes a loud noise, rub a tire on a bike and it's your ass sliding down the pavement. Lower a car and you have the option to take it to an alignment shop and have them correct the caster/camber/toe, etc....lower a bike and well you had better have sat down and done all the rake, trail, and lean angle calculations before hand because it doubles your cost to fix it if you screw up and you can't just take it to a shop and have someone "adjust" it. Do real research too, and that doesn't mean just look at pretty pictures on the interweb. That CX500 you have? that's a stressed member frame - that means that EVERYTHING that bolts to that bike contributes to the rigidity of the frame. That means you have to put more thought into parts selection and modification than most double cradle frame bikes. There are some absolutely stunning death trap cx500s out there on the net, and people keep building them because they saw it on the internet so it must be ok.

    anyway, best of luck.
    Last edited by Geeto67; 11-15-2019 at 11:03 PM.
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
    - Samuel Beckett
    A tool is just an opportunity with a handle
    - Kevin Kelly

  3. #13
    Junior Member winmag4582001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeto67 View Post
    It isn't about who you are in competition with or whether you are doing something "better" than anyone else. It's about doing an objectively good job building a safe and well built custom motorcycle that has actual improvements. Every genre of motorcycle has an ethos, an underlying purpose that should be held in mind. For this end of the hobby and these motorcycles objective value is garnered not just by how cool it looks, but how well it functions. If you fail at function then all you built is another chopper, regardless of how it looks.

    to very loosely paraphrase Hemingway: there is no nobility in being superior as compared to others - nobility comes in being superior to your former self through education and self improvement. this applies as much to motorcycles as it does to anything else in life.


    I have no argument with that. The internet and social media has made everyone with a dream and the willingness to assemble a half ass custom motorcycle think they are gods gift to customizing.

    Cheap =/= Shit. Shit = shit. The great part about old motorcycles is that there are plenty who have figured out how to work parts cross reference tables and to be resourceful when the green resource is in short supply. For instance that brake upgrade I mentioned - you can pull that off for less than $50 if you are cunning, and it is meaningful and adds value to your riding experience. Buying shitty parts just because they are cheap an look cool, well I'm sorry to say that's just lazy, esp when there are tutorials on how to make those parts less shitty. here is a tutorial on how to take the shit out of your shitty shocks, and it even shows you how to make the tools you need:

    https://www.caferacer.net/forum/tips...ap-shocks.html



    It's happening all across the country, and to be fair it's good that kids learn to do this stuff. the idea though is to not stop learning. It's not to "call it done" just because it looks like every other bike on instagram, it's to push to learn new skills and keep evolving with the bike. ok he made it to step one, he's got a mildly custom bike with a lot of shortcomings, time to learn how to address those shortcomings. It's great he bought another bike and all, but finish your dinner before getting a second helping.

    Praise is very narrow in it's value and almost worthless in a broad sense. It's a great motivator, but you don't learn from praise, and honestly, praise from people who are just like the way it looks is empty. I don't know who these "hardcore" people are and frankly, sure if he can use that to stay motivated to keep learning then great, but you learn from criticism. You learn from overcoming failure, and right now I see a lot of opportunities to improve the motorcycle and learn skills for very little amount of money and a medium investment in time.




    Just don't fall into the trap of thinking what applies to cars applies to motorcycles. It isn't and motorcycles are way less forgiving than cars. Rub a tire in a car and it costs you money, some time, maybe makes a loud noise, rub a tire on a bike and it's your ass sliding down the pavement. Lower a car and you have the option to take it to an alignment shop and have them correct the caster/camber/toe, etc....lower a bike and well you had better have sat down and done all the rake, trail, and lean angle calculations before hand because it doubles your cost to fix it if you screw up and you can't just take it to a shop and have someone "adjust" it. Do real research too, and that doesn't mean just look at pretty pictures on the interweb. That CX500 you have? that's a stressed member frame - that means that EVERYTHING that bolts to that bike contributes to the rigidity of the frame. That means you have to put more thought into parts selection and modification than most double cradle frame bikes. There are some absolutely stunning death trap cx500s out there on the net, and people keep building them because they saw it on the internet so it must be ok.

    anyway, best of luck.
    Appreciate the opinion.
    Fenix likes this.

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  5. #14
    Senior Member dirkchecken's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    997
    the kids smile and he looks happy, that is what should be important.
    Fenix likes this.
    I like my shocks like I like my women. Cheap and Chinese.

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