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1970 cl350 cafe project

This is a discussion on 1970 cl350 cafe project within the Project Builds forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; Pod filters don't work. If you typed "pod filters" into google you would get tens or thousands of hits about newbies asking about them and ...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    Pod filters don't work. If you typed "pod filters" into google you would get tens or thousands of hits about newbies asking about them and then learning that a) you probably don't have the skill to retune to carbs, b) you lose hp on a stock engine in most cases, c) they are generally dispised by people who know about motorcycles, d) don't keep rain water out, and e) the emgo ones are the worst and a clear indicator you have no business working on a motorcycle if you have them on your bike. All this from google.

    You want a place to start, start by riding the bike. Does everything work? If not fix it. Then do a full service and tuneup on it per the manual, including carb sync and valve adjustment. Buy all tools you need to do this. After the bike is well sorted and you want to modify - start with the brakes and suspension, then wheels and tires. Think of the bike as a series of systems because one affects the rest. The bars, seat and foot controls are all one system and should be changed as a set. Get it?

    As you go you will find that things that work will look better than if you just planned you bike for how cool it looks.

    This isn't a cheap hobby, and being a student you are better off keeping the bike a runner for as long as possible. Quality paint and upolstry costs money that you may not have, so rather than make the bike look better make it work better. Trust me you will enjoy it more.

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
    - Samuel Beckett
    A tool is just an opportunity with a handle
    - Kevin Kelly

  2. #32
    Member lizard821000's Avatar
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    ^^ well said, theyre shit. shit in moist/rain....fk up your jetting so need to rejet to suit which can be impossible cos of all the turbulance they invite into your ventri. they do look good though on the naked racer, bout it.

  3. #33
    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    On pod filters, they are cheap, easy to mount and work slightly better than stretching a nylon stocking over the mouth of your carbs. What don't they do: they don't sit inside an air box which is important for 2 reasons. The air box reduces induction noise (the sound that sucks) Secondly the air box provides a large 'still' air volume for the carbs to breath from (which according to engine design practice yields a proven performance advantages)

    So if you ruffled feathers with your question and wonder why, it's because we look at your bike and think 'wow look how nice and stock original that thing is' We all spotted the stock vacuum carbs on your existing bike and the 'race' carbs on your inspiration bike, but you noticed the 'shit nothing else will fit so I guess I'll just mount some cheap pods on this thing' air filters.

    If you came in here and said: I want to get rid of those lousy CV carbs but I think the only filters I can fit are pods, you would have stimulated a far more interesting and productive conversation.

    My recommended start point on this build ...your right footpeg sucks.

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  5. #34
    Junior Member legerhefe's Avatar
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    Interesting thread.... I just picked up my first pair of old Honda bikes. One's a (mostly)complete CL350 but the guy had installed pods on it and threw away the boxes...he said it ran fine for awhile but now he's having a power issue and decided to get rid of it. I'll add a stock air box to my list of parts I need.... thanks.

  6. #35
    Junior Member legerhefe's Avatar
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    Interesting thread.... I just picked up my first pair of old Honda bikes. One's a (mostly)complete CL350 but the guy had installed pods on it and threw away the boxes...he said it ran fine for awhile but now he's having a power issue and decided to get rid of it. I'll add a stock air box to my list of parts I need.... thanks.

  7. #36
    Senior Member OC Steve's Avatar
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    The "Pods are shit" dogma may be correct most of the time, especially for noobs. It may also be correct most of the time for ordinary street (not track) riding. It is almost certainly correct for those who don't have the patience and skill for tuning.

    But let's not accept it as gospel for all circumstances. Here's something I wrote awhile back on this forum:

    Do we really know how pods affect performance? Many of you say pods worsen performance, but how do you know? I'm not trying to be an ass (I don't even need to try to do that, it just happens). I'm just curious about how the consensus developed.

    If you tried pods on your bike and decided they suck, that's cool. But how did you determine that the performance was actually worsened?

    When I tune a bike at home, the only thing I can tell for sure are real obvious problems: howitzer-style backfiring, great yawning flat spots during accelleration, or an entire cylinder that has gone catatonic. I used to kid myself that I could detect small improvements in horsepower, but I was just a callow youth at the time. Now that I'm older, I give my butt-dyno a lot less credibility.

    What would convince me that you pod-haters are right? Horsepower curves and torque curves. Real dyno tests. I would need to see dyno tests with lots of different jetting and exhaust combos, with and without pods, on lots of different bikes. Otherwise, how do you know pods can't be made to work well with some smart tuning? Unless you're Erv Kanemoto, your seat-of-the-pants opinion could be, ahem, a little off.

    I understand when you say airbox volume and venturi shape are important. So I can see why some of you say a stock airbox is best. But let's not apply one rule in every instance, as if it were the Sum Total Of All Possible Knowledge. There are too many variables here for this to be that simple. I would bet money that a stock airbox is often the best choice. But I would also bet money that some bikes, when tuned for top performance by someone who knows what they are doing, work better with pods.
    https://www.caferacer.net/forum/topic...archTerms=pods


  8. #37
    Senior Member OC Steve's Avatar
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    The "Pods are shit" dogma may be correct most of the time, especially for noobs. It may also be correct most of the time for ordinary street (not track) riding. It is almost certainly correct for those who don't have the patience and skill for tuning.

    But let's not accept it as gospel for all circumstances. Here's something I wrote awhile back on this forum:

    Do we really know how pods affect performance? Many of you say pods worsen performance, but how do you know? I'm not trying to be an ass (I don't even need to try to do that, it just happens). I'm just curious about how the consensus developed.

    If you tried pods on your bike and decided they suck, that's cool. But how did you determine that the performance was actually worsened?

    When I tune a bike at home, the only thing I can tell for sure are real obvious problems: howitzer-style backfiring, great yawning flat spots during accelleration, or an entire cylinder that has gone catatonic. I used to kid myself that I could detect small improvements in horsepower, but I was just a callow youth at the time. Now that I'm older, I give my butt-dyno a lot less credibility.

    What would convince me that you pod-haters are right? Horsepower curves and torque curves. Real dyno tests. I would need to see dyno tests with lots of different jetting and exhaust combos, with and without pods, on lots of different bikes. Otherwise, how do you know pods can't be made to work well with some smart tuning? Unless you're Erv Kanemoto, your seat-of-the-pants opinion could be, ahem, a little off.

    I understand when you say airbox volume and venturi shape are important. So I can see why some of you say a stock airbox is best. But let's not apply one rule in every instance, as if it were the Sum Total Of All Possible Knowledge. There are too many variables here for this to be that simple. I would bet money that a stock airbox is often the best choice. But I would also bet money that some bikes, when tuned for top performance by someone who knows what they are doing, work better with pods.
    https://www.caferacer.net/forum/topic...archTerms=pods


  9. #38
    Senior Member Acemon's Avatar
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    Steve, that's one of the best posts I've read regarding pods, or really any sort of modifications. Like you said, the only way to determine how much or little a set of pods would do for performance is to dyno test the HP (at crank and at rear wheel) with the stock airbox, then do the exact same test with the pods. It's like trying to debug an electrical problem - you do it one step at a time otherwise you don't know what worked or what made the problem worse.

    Here's what I aimed for with my project:



    I'm guessing the pods help, but without knowing the baseline I don't have a solid answer. I wonder if the owner knows. It's a little too late for me to find out if the pods work better than the stock airbox (mainly because I sold those parts) but my friendly tuner seems to think so. He also thinks a different set of pods would work better. He works on bikes for a living so I have to defer to his opinion.

    One thing I know for certain is that my long-gone 240z responded differently with timing and fuel mix combinations. I could gain more top-end HP but at the cost of low-end acceleration. I ended up going back to the stock setup because that worked best for around-town driving. I think the same would apply to motorcycles because you have to decide what your priorities are.

    My bike will need some sorting out with the pods and a 2-1 header. Will it be better than Honda designed? I'll probably never know. It looks pretty cool, but so does Pamela Anderson. I think the pods will be far less of a pain in the ass than her.

  10. #39
    Member freeskier's Avatar
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    That is an awesome bike that you posted above... I was wondering has anyone had any experience with putting uni-filters on instead of pods or the stock filters?

  11. #40
    Administrator texmawby's Avatar
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    Uni brand foam filters are excellent and I see many of them in the race paddock. They would be perfect on the street as well.

    You get what you pay for!

    Tex
    advocate for the injured, disabled, and urinated upon.

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