Bushings vs. Bearings in a swing arm.. - Page 2
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Bushings vs. Bearings in a swing arm..

This is a discussion on Bushings vs. Bearings in a swing arm.. within the Technical forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; Poor blue had a bit of yaw in that swingarm haha. Mind you how many miles on that bike? And in NYC? Jesus. Sozza Dean, ...

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  1. #11
    Senior Member Big Bad Bob Dog's Avatar
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    Poor blue had a bit of yaw in that swingarm haha. Mind you how many miles on that bike? And in NYC? Jesus.

    Sozza Dean, I thought I'd have to explain myself to someone who owned one after I typed it. The design for the time? Brilliant. Lighten the valves by shrinking them and throwing in 4 more? Brilliant! Balance the thing with some fandangaled contraption that does work? Brilliant! But let's add an extra chain for that one. Oh and let's make sure we make the head out of two parts, not one. We really like pissing off mechanics here at Yamaha. Oh and lets only use a few complete gaskets, make sure everything else is a string gasket. Millions of string gaskets.

    Lots of recalls for the head cracking, and as you said over heating.

    I've built two engines now. My favorite instruction is the cam towers. 70 inch pounds to tighten them. That's just over finger tight. Have lock tabs to stop them spinning off. On both engines, man of the studs holding the towers were snapped in two. Scary shit.

    Now if everything was new, and was the last update of the engine, I'm sure it could be great. But I'll skip the work and take an SR anyday.
    That's like, your opinion, man.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Dean's Avatar
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    yeah.... I know, I know.... do you think the same engineer who decided 6m studs were enough for the cam towers also had a string gasket fetish ?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Tonnystark's Avatar
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    Still do love how simple the SR is... Simplicity is what sold me on this bike. Just didn't know at 19 how wise that choice was to become!!..
    .......O.K......well just after I learned how to start it properly..

    me being 135 lbs. in those days it was a mule to kick over, especially when done wrong...
    78' SR500
    64' YG1S
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  5. #14
    Senior Member Geeto67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Bob Dog View Post
    Poor blue had a bit of yaw in that swingarm haha. Mind you how many miles on that bike? And in NYC? Jesus.
    About 50K under my ownership (it's a rough estimate - I lost the log book in the move). She got new bronze swingarm bushings in 2000 but that was 10 years ago and she has been in an accident and a shit ton of NYC miles since then. Probably hasn't been lubed in 10 years. At least the mullholland shocks are holding up well.

    I have to take the wheel off this weekend to have a tube changed in the tire (she's totally flat), so I might grease her as well and tighten the pivot bolt. the more I can't ride and tinker the more I am heading toward a partial restoration on the bike.
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
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  6. #15
    Senior Member crazypj's Avatar
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    Any type of rolling element bearing will give less friction but they are not really the best thing for a swing arm bearing
    The contact is less than with properly fitted and sized bushing and will 'Brinnel' on higher horsepower/heavier bikes or if used for drag starts
    As a swing arm has limited movement (maybe 10~15 degrees rotation?) the same 2~3 bearings take all the load from drive chain on a line contact.
    If there was a method of keeping bearings rotating 360 degrees they would be a far superior method of locating swing arm
    The pressures can be high enough to cut through any lubricant which then accelerates wear. the machining has to be more accurate to keep everything in line (which is a good thing)
    Bushings have much more surface area but also much more friction, they can support swing arm better but need much more regular lubrication
    I dabble in rocket science, when I\'m not picking my nose
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  7. #16
    Senior Member kenessex's Avatar
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    I think that with proper installation and maintenance, nobody will be able to tell the difference between either a metal bushing or needle bearings in any application, including racing. Like PJ pointed out, the range of movement is so small, it just doesn't matter. What does matter is any free play either laterally or radially will be noticeable as evidenced by poor handling in turns and a tendency to have headshake and tankslappers while in a straight line if they are sloppy enough.

    Ken
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    AHRMA not anymore
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  8. #17
    Senior Member hillsy's Avatar
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    Bearings are far more expensive than bushings, so there must be some sort of advantage about them for just about every bike to run them nowadays. If the Japs thought they could get away with skimping on this they would be doing it.

  9. #18
    Senior Member kenessex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillsy View Post
    Bearings are far more expensive than bushings, so there must be some sort of advantage about them for just about every bike to run them nowadays. If the Japs thought they could get away with skimping on this they would be doing it.
    I think they key reason the factory would use bearings is that everything needs to be properly fitted to work correctly. With bearings it is simply a matter of good alignment during installation, something that a machine can do. For bushings, to get ease of installation they need to be set up loose. In that case, a bearing will work noticeably better than a loose bushing. A properly set up bushing needs to be installed by hand, checked and possibly reamed for the pivot shaft. That is almost never done. I have only reamed swingarm bushings once, on a race bike. That is why I like bearings.
    WERA 119
    CCS 119
    CRA 119
    AHRMA not anymore
    \"Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.\"
    Evan Esar
    Newbies, Geeto and Tex (Bye Tex)hate me!!

  10. #19
    Senior Member bmartin's Avatar
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    I'm holding out for a set of "rotational magnetic axis bearings" - no friction or lateral movement to worry about... Think it's BS - checkout synchrony.com or premanentmagnet.com..
    Bob - Palmyra NY
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    1 - 71 CB750

  11. #20
    Senior Member o1marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmartin View Post
    I'm holding out for a set of "rotational magnetic axis bearings" - no friction or lateral movement to worry about... Think it's BS - checkout synchrony.com or premanentmagnet.com..
    do you mean permanentmagnet.com?
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