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destructive testing with bronze

This is a discussion on destructive testing with bronze within the Technical forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; having some thoughts on frame building lately, going over methods, probably will use crmo tubing, looks like bronze fillet brazing is the way to go, ...

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    Senior Member roccitycafe's Avatar
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    destructive testing with bronze

    having some thoughts on frame building lately, going over methods, probably will use crmo tubing, looks like bronze fillet brazing is the way to go, doesn't overheat the base metal and isn't hard as nuts, this test piece was bent back and forth until it broke, you can tell by the distortion of the tube that the haz wasn't made brittle by the process like tig does

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    Senior Member CAPTAIN AWESOME's Avatar
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    I'm curious as to what you are building?

    I've got a couple frames I would like to braze weld and have been getting the most basic info from Eurospares. Any tips, tricks, etc. to give to a new guy? I've torch welded before, but it's been quite some time since I've had practice. Usually just pull out the mig for tabs and brackets, but would rather braze.

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    Senior Member raven's Avatar
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    When I have done brazed joints on things, it always takes me atleast twice as long because I had precision fit up driven into my head. With MIG and I suppose TIG (I have not done much of that...) you can deal with imperfections in the fitup. Brazing is strongest when its a capillary action between the parts. This goes for bronze brazing as well as plain old tractor supply brazing rods as well as silver soldering bits together. You have demonstrated that bronze brazing, when done properly is way way more than adequate for pretty much any bike frame use. And its pretty :P
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    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    Makes perfect sense. Your weld material melts at a far lower temperature then your base material.

    & the strength of the weld is dependant on adhesion, instead of melt and penetration.
    Last edited by TrialsRider; 01-26-2015 at 07:14 AM.

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    Senior Member roccitycafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAPTAIN AWESOME View Post
    I'm curious as to what you are building?

    I've got a couple frames I would like to braze weld and have been getting the most basic info from Eurospares. Any tips, tricks, etc. to give to a new guy? I've torch welded before, but it's been quite some time since I've had practice. Usually just pull out the mig for tabs and brackets, but would rather braze.
    I'll try to put together a video, I think it comes down to flux application, bronze selection, and heat

    and yes, the joints do like to be fit very very well, I coped the tube then came in with a file to get the joint perfect, it's definitely not a production friendly process

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    Senior Member CAPTAIN AWESOME's Avatar
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    That would be cool. Are you tacking then jumping around to reduce distortion or was this just a "test" kinda thing?

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    Senior Member roccitycafe's Avatar
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    the tube is tacked 4 places, then the braze is just run around the tube, the bronze braze doesn't really pull like a weld does, the temperature only gets to about 16-1700, as opposed to 2500 or more for a weld, so once its tacked, it really doesn't move. really nice feature for frame building as it doesn't add a lot of stresses into a frame built on a jig

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    Senior Member CAPTAIN AWESOME's Avatar
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    Also, why Chromoly? The heat treating sounds like a pain, but it could just be my complete ignorance to the subject. I'm also curious how significant the weight difference would be to mild steel.

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    Senior Member TrialsRider's Avatar
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    You could borrow from ancient bicycle technology "lugged steel frame construction" for more ideas.
    Lugged steel frame construction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Senior Member CAPTAIN AWESOME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrialsRider View Post
    You could borrow from ancient bicycle technology "lugged steel frame construction" for more ideas.
    Lugged steel frame construction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Just for clarification, that is brazing, and not braze/bronze welding. Am I correct? Capillary action draws into filler rod into the lug. Roc is braze fillet welding.

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