Kickstart only bike...electrical questions
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Kickstart only bike...electrical questions

This is a discussion on Kickstart only bike...electrical questions within the Technical forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; alright, ive been messing with the wiring for a bit now on my reserrected 75 Cb360. Ive decided to go with a small SLA battery, ...

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  1. #1
    Matt N's Avatar
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    Kickstart only bike...electrical questions

    alright, ive been messing with the wiring for a bit now on my reserrected 75 Cb360. Ive decided to go with a small SLA battery, in an effort to keep anything i dont HAVE TO HAVE off the bike, and what i do need to keep as small and hidden as possible. I actually originally wanted to run a capacitor instead of a battery, and i still have it, but im not sure if it can work how i need it to.

    So for the questions...
    Since im no longer using the starter, i can remove the starter solenoid correct? Sounds obvious but hey. [] If so where does the positive off the battery hook to?

    How does a bike using a capacitor get wired? In that case it seems more could be removed, such as the rectifier, etc.

    Im trying to compromise between a clean, lean bike, and actual function.

    *Possibly an easier question to answer. On a kickstart bike, as far as electrical, what must i have to run the bike, and utilize lights/signals etc?*

    sorry if the above is hard to follow, im in a weird frame of mind right now. haha


  2. #2
    Senior Member Judeyramone's Avatar
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    I have a smaller than stock SLA battery that I bought for my cb350. I think it cost me around $25. From what I've read, eliminating the battery on either of these bikes (cb360 & cb350 use the same battery) is not really possible. I think your best bet is to just go with a smaller battery. I'll try to find out what it is I bought, and post it here in the next day or so.
    Many a man who falls in love with a dimple makes the mistake of marrying the whole girl. - Evan Esar

  3. #3
    Senior Member HackAsaw's Avatar
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    doesn't this bike have a permanent magnet AC alternator?

    one that doesn't require it's field to be excited?

    I am sure that is the case and if so, it should be nothing more than a cake walk to run it batteryless


    However, I've never done it but cannot begin to imagine why it wouldn't be possible and even easy

    so if it really can't be done, I'd be glad to be educated about why not

    tell me if the alternator output is single or three phase, I have a CB350 alt in my shop but haven't looked at it in a while

    ok I have to go over and lock up anyhow, I'll look and get back to you

    what I'd do if it were my bike, is strip the entire wiring harness and run my own bare bones harness with just the wires that are needed for everything to work

    yeah you can get shed of the starter solenoid and I suppose you could bolt the terminal ends together to supply your main power

    you must keep a rectifier and my preference is to get a solid state combined rectifier/regulator unit and ditch all the old stuff

    the rectifier converts the AC into DC

    the regulator clips the DC at a preset voltage level, around 14 volts
    Accidental inventor of the worlds fastest wearing rocker arms and other edible engine parts! Try my yummy blue cheese camshafts!

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  5. #4
    Member shortshift's Avatar
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    Hey there, I've been planning on using one of these to run without a battery:

    http://www.radsportphoto.de/

    Maybe it could work for your bike?
    better is the enemy of good enough.

  6. #5
    Senior Member kenessex's Avatar
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    I am running a battery eliminator on my CB350 race bike. It is the Bat-Pac I got off e-bay. It works good except when I tried to run the lights for a street ride. I never bothered to try and figure it out since it is a race bike.
    Ken
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  7. #6
    Senior Member catboy's Avatar
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    trying to eliminate a battery altogether on a street bike, while certainly trick, seems to be WAY more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. plus, i think you need one for a 360.
    iphone generated fag

  8. #7
    Matt N's Avatar
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    alright, moving on with the battery...
    can someone clarify or expound on bypassing the starter solenoid/relay, and tell me what goes where?

    heres what im looking at:


    Ive got the Positive post (which to my understanding is the one that is bare), the Negative post(again, i think), which has two prong plug to the rectifier and fue box, and another short cable (Maybe the battery ground?), and then the small black and yellow/red wires.

    can some one tell me how to hook this battery up?
    Thanks for all the help, and HackAsaw im still curious to see what you come up with.


  9. #8
    Matt N's Avatar
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    wow...did i have that all backwards and confused. lol it didnt click til a bit ago that there isnt a ground post on the coil, and that one side is positive from the battery and the other the power wire for the starter. doh!

    anywho i got it all sorted out, now im searching for the gremlin thats keepin me from getting spark. i think i have it narrowed down to the condenser though. the points checked out ok. my multimeter stopped working so i couldnt check the coils out, but im hoping they arent the culprit. ill have to go get a meter and see...

    sorry for my stupidity running all through this thread. its been a crazy week.

  10. #9
    Senior Member HackAsaw's Avatar
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    sorry for the duplicate guys
    Accidental inventor of the worlds fastest wearing rocker arms and other edible engine parts! Try my yummy blue cheese camshafts!

  11. #10
    Senior Member HackAsaw's Avatar
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    quote:Originally posted by HackAsaw

    Ok, I'll post up some pix and offer a few of my opinions. Put a buck fiddy with it and get yourself a cup of coffee maybe.



    here we have a mess of alternators....... I'm an alternator kinda guy if you didn't know.



    the one closest to you is a CB350 unit...... unless I've gone totally senile

    possible I suppose



    now the one closest to you is a 180 watt single phase Lucas unit

    damned fine alternator..... can't say much for any of the English factory wiring but the charging system components are bullet proof

    the one behind the CB is an Italian alternator just a few ticks under 400 watts

    really damned fine alternator

    the one to the left of it is a 150 watt alternator

    notice how much physically smaller all of these units are than the CB350 unit

    now the standard Lucas alternator is a 135 watt unit and it will indeed run point ignition and DOT lights without a battery

    yes the lights go brown at idle and you have to set the idle up so it doesn't die

    and it's much more reliable with 5 ohm ignition coils

    The 180 watt unit will do it no problem but you'll still have lights dimming and flickering a bit at idle

    Note: the three phase Lucas units aren't really great for batteryless running simply because they don't have a high enough peak voltage at slow speed to make the ignition happy....... even though once running they do put out a bit more juice at idle speeds than the single phase units

    Now the 150 and 375ish watt small units...... they will do it and the big one (single phase and very peaky) will do it with 3 ohm coils, electronic ignition, and H4 headlight

    ask me how I know

    I also have one of these 180 watt Lucas alternators on one of my HD's and it runs DOT (not so legal) high wattage headlights but the ignition is fired by a Fairbanks Morse magneto.... but I am sure it would light off points ignition too even if I had to run legal bulbs

    I have one of the big single phase units on another HD and it lights off electronic ignition and powers non-DOT legal lights as well, LEDs in the rear though

    glad to show you if you care to see

    sooooooooo....... I don't know what the output of this CB unit is....... I just recall keeping it thinking it looked like it had potential

    but if people who have tried have decided it just isn't enough to run ignition and lights

    well Honda dropped the ball and if I was doing one........ I'd stuff a good alternator in one a

    ny of these shown in these pix are smaller so I know they could be made to go without having to get too kinky with cases and such

    but certainly I can see that it could be run batteryless

    by simply running the output to a rectifier and then the B+ to a stack of sinked diodes to regulate or clip

    or you could get fancier and build a proper regulator

    less than ten bucks plus time spent

    but I cannot see any reason why a Podtronics or Tympanium/Sparx unit wouldn't handle both rectification and regulation just fine

    do any of you know the rated output of the CB alternator?

    what coils (ohms) do they use stock?
    Accidental inventor of the worlds fastest wearing rocker arms and other edible engine parts! Try my yummy blue cheese camshafts!

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