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Amateur Manx 40M preparation

This is a discussion on Amateur Manx 40M preparation within the Vintage Motorcycle Racing forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; For the sake of production and cost efficiency Burlen make some parts differently eg floats form plastic and not copper soldered up. This makes the ...

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  1. #111
    Senior Member jalsteve's Avatar
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    For the sake of production and cost efficiency Burlen make some parts differently eg floats form plastic and not copper soldered up. This makes the newer floats more buoyant add viton tipped float valves and you get better seat to valve sealing and reduced flooding but you can get stiction in valve or the valve not opening quick enough or just not enough! I run brit bikes wet at low RPM and racing brits even wetter.

    You also need to look at the size of the bore of the float valve there come in different sizes (the hole against which the float valve seats).

    Float chamber - I buy used and rebuild, I never new.
    Lite the blue touch paper and stand well back!

  2. #112
    Senior Member Mike 40M's Avatar
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    Just returned from my first race on the Norton. As the engine is new, I only rode it parade class, in order to give it a bit of break in. Six times a quarter of an hour in the saddle. I found the most difficult thing was to navigate through the pits to get out on the track. I had to keep it at least at 4000 rpm and play with the clutch to be able to go slow. When we got green flag and went out on the track it felt much better. Though I'm quite familiar with that track (raced the Honda there a couple of times) it took some time sorting out which gears and gear changing points. Started very slow to get a feeling of handling. Quickly found that it behaved as a featherbed Norton should. No problems there. Then found that I shall never go under 5000 rpm, which meant that I had to go a bit faster in the bends. Though it prefers anything over 6000 rpm to be happy. Any problems? Yes the gear lever doesn't suit me at all. Downshifting no problems, but I had trouble upshifting. I hope making a new lever will sort that out. Otherwise scrap the TTI gearbox and find something better. Another small problem was that on the last time on the track, after a couple of laps with good feeling, the screw holding the clutch lever disappeared. Called it a day, went into the pits. Where the guy who raced it in the sixties said: What! Going out just for a nonworking clutch lever. You should have kept on without it.
    Funny thing, most of my bikes are it or she, but the Manx is definitely a he. With firm opinions on how to be ridden. Fast.
    In -68, I looked at this machine and wondered how it would feel to ride a real racer. Now I know, FUN.
    Still a lot to learn but very happy.
    CaTacL1sm likes this.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Mike 40M's Avatar
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    Another weekend on the racetrack. The Norton started easily as usual ( after I found I had forgotten to remove the plug in the intake ). The new gear lever Mk IIIB, worked well. They had made some changes to the course since last time I raced there, so it took a couple of laps to find the new lines. Luckily the Manx is very forgiving and sorted out my wrong racelines without complaining. In the end of the first practice I was really enjoying riding it. Still I played safe and braked way to early, not knowing how good the brakes are. Back in the pits noticed a wet point in the rear left part of the tank. A maybe fifty year old plastic repair had started to leak. Removed it and found a 2"+ crack in the weld. Instead of making a quick fix, I called it a day and took out the Honda instead. More of that in my Honda thread. Will talk to my favourite alloy welder.
    Still some questions needs answers. What oil temperature I shall try to get? Seems 3 litres is too much oil as temperature is only 55 degrees C, when back in the pits. What grease to use in the cluch roller bearing and how much? How long to warm up the engine?

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  5. #114
    Senior Member Mike 40M's Avatar
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    Met an experienced Manx mechanic from Scotland in the pits at Goodwood. He answered to the question I asked in #8 in the thread. The tabs close to the steering head was fitted on 59 and 60 frames. Why no one knows. They were never used for anything. He kindly answered a lot of other questions ( and offered me a beer to).
    Last edited by Mike 40M; 09-17-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  6. #115
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalsteve View Post
    For the sake of production and cost efficiency Burlen make some parts differently eg floats form plastic and not copper soldered up. This makes the newer floats more buoyant add viton tipped float valves and you get better seat to valve sealing and reduced flooding but you can get stiction in valve or the valve not opening quick enough or just not enough! I run brit bikes wet at low RPM and racing brits even wetter.

    You also need to look at the size of the bore of the float valve there come in different sizes (the hole against which the float valve seats).

    Float chamber - I buy used and rebuild, I never new.
    i have never seen copper floats ,brass is what you meant i am sure,
    copper is red, brass is yellow ,that is an easy way for us to distinguish the diff
    re sticking viton tips this is why the japs and others have a simple dangler hook at the spring loaded stem end
    it serves to mechanically pull the valve open upon a bit of float drop
    the hole size in the seat has 2 distincr effects
    a larger hole offers more flow at any given float drop/opening but also needs more float pressure to shut the valve

    spring loaded stem tips are very desirable
    Last edited by XB33BSA; 09-17-2019 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #116
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XB33BSA View Post
    i have never seen copper floats ,brass is what you meant i am sure,
    copper is red, brass is yellow ,that is an easy way for us to distinguish the diff
    re sticking viton tips this is why the japs and others have a simple dangler hook at the spring loaded stem end
    it serves to mechanically pull the valve open upon a bit of float drop
    the hole size in the seat has 2 distincr effects
    a larger hole offers more flow at any given float drop/opening but also needs more float pressure to shut the valve

    spring loaded stem tips are very desirable
    ......
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    "Non urinat in ventum"

  8. #117
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyorg View Post
    ......
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Views: 51
Size:  1.82 MB
    yep those are all brass my color ref was regarding clean metal the brass turns brownish-red
    i have in front of me now a dozen del's from early 60's on and even the remote bowl ss1 ss2 have brass floats
    copper is too ,weak and would need be heavier than brass by a considerable amount to not be as fragile as a dry popcorn fart

  9. #118
    Senior Member XB33BSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike 40M View Post
    Another weekend on the racetrack. The Norton started easily as usual ( after I found I had forgotten to remove the plug in the intake ). The new gear lever Mk IIIB, worked well. They had made some changes to the course since last time I raced there, so it took a couple of laps to find the new lines. Luckily the Manx is very forgiving and sorted out my wrong racelines without complaining. In the end of the first practice I was really enjoying riding it. Still I played safe and braked way to early, not knowing how good the brakes are. Back in the pits noticed a wet point in the rear left part of the tank. A maybe fifty year old plastic repair had started to leak. Removed it and found a 2"+ crack in the weld. Instead of making a quick fix, I called it a day and took out the Honda instead. More of that in my Honda thread. Will talk to my favourite alloy welder.
    Still some questions needs answers. What oil temperature I shall try to get? Seems 3 litres is too much oil as temperature is only 55 degrees C, when back in the pits. What grease to use in the cluch roller bearing and how much? How long to warm up the engine?
    131f is def chilly when i worked in the natural gas production field we had lots of diesels converted with a mag to run nat gas
    every day on rotatyion shifts one of us would vist the 30 some compressors and manually observe and write down temps presures etc
    the oil temps were of course higher than the water but in the 200- 220f+ range was good
    high enough to boil of water low enough to help cool valve springs and whatnot
    keep in mind that too much grease or oil in high speed rolling element bearings is very much a bad thing they can catch fire in the worst case
    the main reason for the lube is to lube the cage and its sliding type contact with the rolling element be it ball or roller

  10. #119
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XB33BSA View Post
    yep those are all brass my color ref was regarding clean metal the brass turns brownish-red
    i have in front of me now a dozen del's from early 60's on and even the remote bowl ss1 ss2 have brass floats
    copper is too ,weak and would need be heavier than brass by a considerable amount to not be as fragile as a dry popcorn fart
    ......
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Views: 59
Size:  104.8 KB
    "Non urinat in ventum"

  11. #120
    Senior Member Mike 40M's Avatar
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    Learned a bit more about the Matchbox float chambers, which I had problems with earlier. On the about a dozen Manxes at Goodwood, most had Gardner float chambers, some had SU, no one used a Matchbox.
    Learned that in the old days, riders was paid by AMAL for using their carbs. Had to use their float chambers too. So they got half a dozen float chambers, tested flow and used the best one.
    Obviously a new made AMAL Matchbox is a close reproduction of the old one. Not usable on tracks with long straights.

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