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This is a discussion on Latest Project within the Vintage Motorcycle Racing forums, part of the Caferacer.net Forums category; You are welcome. For future reference there is also SearchByBore if you get stuck. Might have to turn a land or two, but its an ...

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  1. #21
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    You are welcome. For future reference there is also SearchByBore if you get stuck. Might have to turn a land or two, but its an option. Easier to phone Deves though.
    "Non urinat in ventum"

  2. #22
    Senior Member nixoid's Avatar
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    Any progress on this project?

  3. #23
    Senior Member jalsteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nixoid View Post
    Any progress on this project?
    Yep. Will take some photo's.

    Have been busy on other stuff, photos of some below, nice I think.

    Spondon FZ - reworking this bike, now with 146 at back.
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    1986 UK spec Suzuki GSXR1100 full restoration.
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    Triumph Thruxton T120 1965, full restoration with a proper engine and making a health 57hp at the back.
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    Last edited by jalsteve; 06-30-2019 at 04:21 PM.
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  5. #24
    Senior Member jalsteve's Avatar
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    Progress! Actually the bike is far further on that the photos suggest. For example the magneto is completely rebuilt, top end has been on the engine, gearbox rebuilt, forks and rear suspension sorted. Both wheels are done etc.

    I have been fixing lots of little problems which turned out to be a little difficult to resolve. The gearbox output bearing was spinning in the gearbox case so the bearing needed hard Chrome plate and grinding back to take up the slack. There had been a modification to the gearbox mainshaft and clutch centre to move the clutch for primary chain alignment but I needed to reverse this mod as straightening frame and engine plates meant the original alignment no longer worked.

    So the engine sprocket to clutch chainring alignment and alignment of the rear wheel sprocket with the gearbox sprocket took a bit of thought. The way the bike was built had everything spaced on a very odd way. So I’ve started again - it was easier.

    Hopefully I’ll have the top end on the G50 in s few days. Then sort the controls, then it’s just the exhaust to make,.
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    Last edited by jalsteve; 07-19-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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  6. #25
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    Cases turned out nice! Finding someone over here that is trustworthy to chrome and grind bearing races would be a colossal challenge. Another option is..... brace yourself... using a pressed on sleeve and then turning the bore. Not something for every occasion, but does provide an option. Means some setup time in the mill. The sleeve is about.010 thick, so you could,if necessary correct a line bore issue when using mismatched cases etc. Some folks have a negative reaction to the idea, but it was passed onto be by a fellow who is quite a machinist and has had good success with it. I’m going to give it a go on some beavered up cases and don’t see it being a problem. The sleeve makes for quite a snug fit on the bearing... certainly more so than the “normal” interference fit between the race and case. Figure I’ll use a small tool post grinder to trim the sleeve. The sleeves as far as I know were never intended for this purpose, but why not....
    Anyway enough about the sleeve. Nice work you are doing there.

    Ps... using C3’s because the sleeves are snug plus the race will also be snug in the case again.

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    Last edited by Cyorg; 07-20-2019 at 10:06 PM.
    "Non urinat in ventum"

  7. #26
    Senior Member jalsteve's Avatar
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    Have used sleeves in the past in the AMC gearbox housing. The issue is the amount of material between the layshaft and larger output bearings. There isn’t much and it’s not unusual for the case to crack between these bearings - one spinning bearing becomes two spinning bearings. The Thruxton Bonny had its timing side main repaired with a sleeve - 2 1/2 years Racing from 65 to 67 left the cases very tired.

    I am quite lucky to have someone who can hard Chrome bearings and grind to the correct interference about 10miles away. They also metal spray for crank repairs. hard Chrome Forks and grind back to original etc. In fact they can do most things requiring metal and ceramic coating they can even spray plasma magnesium. Expensive but cheaper than the alternatives.

    Plating up bearings isn’t cheap as the bearing outer diameter must be ground back then the bearing filled with wax before plating, then plated. The plated surface is then ground to side and the wax removed. About £90 per bearing.

    Some of the issues with this bike were hard to understand or rather why the builder went down a particular route. The front wheel for example had a new liner but this had been pressed in over the brake side spoke holes. To remove the spokes meant removing the liner - you want to try removing an interference fit cast iron liner from a 70 year old mag hub without chewing you fingers off in worry as the hub cannot be replaced.

    A few more photos hope they make sense

    Three gearboxes, left is a lay down manx box from 1953, middle manx AMC gearbox 1962 and right AMC G50 gearbox 1958. I am building 3 manx framed bikes at the moment, a 1953 longstroke manx (joe Potts prepared for George Brown and later Bob Macintyre), a 1962 original but no history and this bike.

    The worrying hub!

    Alignment of engine and gearbox and rear wheel - I cannot emphasise enough how bent this frame was, the head stock twist radially, pushed down and to one side. The lower frame rails where 3/4 to one ride which meant the frame was like a banana. The swing arm was twisted to and the subframe was also twist so that one shock was being compressed and the other stretched. But it was worth sorting as basis of the bike ie a 500 manx norton was sold to Francis Beart in 1958 and was raced by several notables until the engine was changed.
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    Last edited by jalsteve; 07-21-2019 at 01:24 AM.
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  8. #27
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    I have a minty long stroke featherbed barrel around somewhere, but everything else (except for a double knocker cam box) is pre featherbed. I was sifting through old papers and came across this...
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    Decided to see if the Manx CR gearbox might have any truth to it.

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    Turns our the gearbox on the upper left fits the bill. The one below it also has all the correct CR bits, except the end cover may be a modified street version with the K/S blanked off. Happy day.

    One of my favourite WTF repairs. This was done in the bush out in the colonies back in the day.

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    Last edited by Cyorg; 07-22-2019 at 10:08 AM.
    "Non urinat in ventum"

  9. #28
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    Speaking of ... fellow sent this photo to me the other day when we were discussing expensive brake plates. He didn’t know the back story, but it must have caused the rider to shit himself into the middle of next week.
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    "Non urinat in ventum"

  10. #29
    Senior Member jalsteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyorg View Post
    Speaking of ... fellow sent this photo to me the other day when we were discussing expensive brake plates. He didn’t know the back story, but it must have caused the rider to shit himself into the middle of next week.
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    Assuming they both failed at the same time and in use - They look home made, lever arms look overly long increasing leverage and there stress on the plate - all that energy has got to go somewhere, the material looks cast but brittle or just to light in gauge.

    That they have shattered in the same way tell you everything you need to know. Poor design and material choice.
    Lite the blue touch paper and stand well back!

  11. #30
    Senior Member Cyorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalsteve View Post
    Assuming they both failed at the same time and in use - They look home made, lever arms look overly long increasing leverage and there stress on the plate - all that energy has got to go somewhere, the material looks cast but brittle or just to light in gauge.

    That they have shattered in the same way tell you everything you need to know. Poor design and material choice.
    I think the design is (more or less....actually a whole lot less) a copy of the original Electron ones that came from Stevenage, but It would seem some folks efforts to copy them hasn’t gone well, also problems with porosity and not machined properly. They are missing the webbing to support the brake arm pivot etc etc. The fellow that sent me the photo said he thought maybe the brake stays let go. Perhaps the fact that the rear scoops were ripped off may suggest he is right?? The shoes are a modern incarnation and may be converted Honda ones, so no more flexing. If they belong to the fellow that I think they do, then I also believe that some newer lininings with a much higher coefficient of friction had been installed. I wondered about the levers as well, and perhaps the length should have been reduced with the stiffer shoes and better linings. There is a set of what appear to be unused cast aluminum ones on EBay for a price that is relatively reasonable, but one of the photos does show porosity, so after seeing the above photo and their unknown origin, I think maybe buyer beware would apply!

    After thinking about it and consuming some caffeine, maybe these aren’t off the bike that I thought they were. If the bike had Bramptons or Girdraulics, then it wouldn’t be caused by broken brake stays.
    Last edited by Cyorg; 07-26-2019 at 10:51 AM.
    "Non urinat in ventum"

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