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I can vouch for that. Mine sounds like a dozen amphetamine charged skeletons breakdancing in a tin bath full of rattlesnakes.

Be careful what you use in it if it is a heated bath as low flashpoint solvent mixes can be extremely dangerous.

I started out with just plain old water in mine and it did a reasonable job (the beauty of ultrasonic cleaning is the mechanical action of cavitation bubbles collapsing against the surface of the part being cleaned)

The cleaning substance you add to the bath helps with breaking down the gummy, oily residues but if you're doing it properly you should be giving the parts a good clean and degrease before they go in the ultrasonic bath.

I'm using sea clean 2 concentrate at a maximum strength of 1:100 with water at 45 deg C and getting good results:

View attachment 45449

This piston had 30 year old gum and carbon caked on and it came up like new.
I know absolutely dick about them and other than watching Ichiban's vid haven't done much searching. I thought using solvents was verboten. I did see mention of using a mixture of vinegar, water and a few drops of dish soap (I think that's washing up soap to you fellows) and it worked wonders on spent ammo. I'll look for Sea Clean and give it a try.

I do plan on degreasing them prior to the ultrasonic. I bought a Chinese parts washer for that. Only problem was... I did't open the box and read the finely printed, strangely worded gobbledygook that implied... using solvent in the solvent tank would cause the wimpy little "water" pump to fail. It started to pucker after 5 minutes, so I shamed the store into giving me a credit back for the cost of the pump and bought a "solvent proof" pump off of eBay.
 
I knew dick about them until I read into it. I first found Ichiban San whilst researching how to home build a bath. That's what eventually led me here.

The correct term for the language used in the instructions is "Chinglish" and it is an excessively polite way to make everything sound super nice.

If you end up using sea clean then start weak and build up. It's apparently all vagitarian, planet safe stuff; but my initial tests with it led to tarnishing of the component at higher concentrations when cleaning alloy. (almost like a speeding up of the natural oxidised protective layer that alloy creates on contact with atmosphere).

The first thing I cleaned when I got mine were the tea mugs. Play with it using different bath solutions and expendable parts to be cleaned.

I like the idea of using household ingredients to do better work than 5 gallons of "pro" cleaner retailing at £100
 
I know absolutely dick about them and other than watching Ichiban's vid haven't done much searching. I thought using solvents was verboten. I did see mention of using a mixture of vinegar, water and a few drops of dish soap (I think that's washing up soap to you fellows) and it worked wonders on spent ammo. I'll look for Sea Clean and give it a try.

I do plan on degreasing them prior to the ultrasonic. I bought a Chinese parts washer for that. Only problem was... I did't open the box and read the finely printed, strangely worded gobbledygook that implied... using solvent in the solvent tank would cause the wimpy little "water" pump to fail. It started to pucker after 5 minutes, so I shamed the store into giving me a credit back for the cost of the pump and bought a "solvent proof" pump off of eBay.
I'm curious as to what pump you found- I've got a Chinese parts washer at home and I use solvent and ran in to the same issue. I wasn't able to find a suitable pump for less than a million dollars.
 
Most of the time you can run the same pump if you strip it and replace the buna o rings and seals with viton.

If it's fucked you can't fuck it any more by taking it to bits and fixing it.
 
I'm curious as to what pump you found- I've got a Chinese parts washer at home and I use solvent and ran in to the same issue. I wasn't able to find a suitable pump for less than a million dollars.
I bought this one. Price was good compared to the same pump from other sellers and it was shipped right away, so the guy seems fine. The pump had good reviews and if weight means anything... it's heavy for its size and seems solid.. I just installed it, so nothing to say about longevity. They say to keep solvent away from the power cord, so that does complicate the install a bit. You could (like they recommend) screw on a length of pipe and hang it from that. I just ran the line through a hose (clamped onto the brass fitting) and into the switch box. Not sure how the hose will stand up over time, but it should be ok because it's above the solvent level and in a housing so it won't get sprayed. It does come with a intake strainer of sorts that they don't show in the pictures. The pump's fluid outlet is plastic and I'm not sure how much abuse it would take from bending the washer hose around while cleaning parts. I was able to put the pump in the existing metal housing (with some tin bashing) and use an existing bracket and pipe to hold it steady. Anyway... happy so far other than the time it took farting around trying to mount it when I could have been cleaning parts.


LITTLE GIANT PE-2YSA Pump,Parts Washer | eBay

Edit... I should add that this pump has a lot more volume than the original. It's like a race horse on a diuretic, so be prepared for splash back. I may try adding some sort of brush to the end, so it disperses the flow a bit or drill a bypass hole on the outlet pipe.
 
Cyorg - I was hoping the older version of factory pump was still available. I have the exact same parts washer at work that is about 20 years old, original pump running in mineral spirits, still works fine.
 
I bought this one. Price was good compared to the same pump from other sellers and it was shipped right away, so the guy seems fine. The pump had good reviews and if weight means anything... it's heavy for its size and seems solid.. I just installed it, so nothing to say about longevity. They say to keep solvent away from the power cord, so that does complicate the install a bit. You could (like they recommend) screw on a length of pipe and hang it from that. I just ran the line through a hose (clamped onto the brass fitting) and into the switch box. Not sure how the hose will stand up over time, but it should be ok because it's above the solvent level and in a housing so it won't get sprayed. It does come with a intake strainer of sorts that they don't show in the pictures. The pump's fluid outlet is plastic and I'm not sure how much abuse it would take from bending the washer hose around while cleaning parts. I was able to put the pump in the existing metal housing (with some tin bashing) and use an existing bracket and pipe to hold it steady. Anyway... happy so far other than the time it took farting around trying to mount it when I could have been cleaning parts.


LITTLE GIANT PE-2YSA Pump,Parts Washer | eBay

Edit... I should add that this pump has a lot more volume than the original. It's like a race horse on a diuretic, so be prepared for splash back. I may try adding some sort of brush to the end, so it disperses the flow a bit or drill a bypass hole on the outlet pipe.
Diesel or petrol pump impeller type drawing through a filter for solvent. For the ultrasonic a good quality parts cleaner pump, if you circulate the fluid in the ultrasonic it will clean quicker, you can use a small central heating pump again use a filter.

Note some ultrasonic tanks are designed for solvent cleaners and are safe, lids are clamp down and usually not heated. Great for cranks, engine cases with galleries and that sort of thing.

For interest I have used diesel (sometimes petrol) pumped through cranks that don't have a removable sludge trap to clean them, just clamp a pipe on the feed end and pump directly into the crank and leave for a day or so = perfect inside.
 
I have often used diesel for bath cleaning and it is top notch. I have also used it as an additive to the oil before draining and it works well as an engine flush.

I like the idea of circulating the solution in the ultrasonic cleaner. I'm hatching a plan as I type.... Simple motor mounted to the lid with a shaft extending through to the bath with a small R/C boat prop to agitate the solution. I have an R/C outboard that I could just hang on the edge of the basket but I think that is maybe taking the piss!!
 
For interest I have used diesel (sometimes petrol) pumped through cranks that don't have a removable sludge trap to clean them, just clamp a pipe on the feed end and pump directly into the crank and leave for a day or so = perfect inside.
That is of interest. I have been wondering about that lately. I have a crank W/O sludge trap and have been waffling back and forth abound running solvent through it for a while. The crank is nice and straight and the big end is still as it should be, so I don't want to monkey with it. My only fear is dislodging some of the crap (assuming there is crap) from the oil passage and it not finding its way though the big end bearing. I probably worry too much and the new detergent oils might move it along eventually anyway. Better to have a go at it now rather that have it go through the bearings while running under load.

I was thinking of asking you what sort of piston clearance you run in the Manx engines. The factory notes mention anywhere from .008 to .019 (500 alloy barrel) and on Ian Bennett's site, he says don't run any tighter even with modern pistons or they will seize. I would think that you could run a little tighter with modern pistons and the rings would be happier Y/N?
 
That is of interest. I have been wondering about that lately. I have a crank W/O sludge trap and have been waffling back and forth abound running solvent through it for a while. The crank is nice and straight and the big end is still as it should be, so I don't want to monkey with it. My only fear is dislodging some of the crap (assuming there is crap) from the oil passage and it not finding its way though the big end bearing. I probably worry too much and the new detergent oils might move it along eventually anyway. Better to have a go at it now rather that have it go through the bearings while running under load.

I was thinking of asking you what sort of piston clearance you run in the Manx engines. The factory notes mention anywhere from .008 to .019 (500 alloy barrel) and on Ian Bennett's site, he says don't run any tighter even with modern pistons or they will seize. I would think that you could run a little tighter with modern pistons and the rings would be happier Y/N?[/QUOTE

If diesel doesn't dissolve the crap then detergent oil is unlikely to touch it. Good thing is most multi cylinder cranks have galleries you can drill out if you are worried, then clean and reinstate the plugs. On Norton twin cranks I drill the web and install a plug which I can remove later if I need to which give access to the trap. If the crank is plain bearing you could put it in the ultrasonic?

Piston clearance is a funny one. Original pistons fitted by Norton (Wellworthy) are heavy thick cast and likely to kill your cat if one falls from your work bench. They can take some warming up too and they can grow a lot therefore despite being forgings. More modern pistons from Omega or similar are a fraction of the weight are stable and grow less. Basic rules apply when all is new; follow the rules of the piston manufacturer! Problems occur when the cylinder has done a little work, probably s/hand and the only piston you have is a modern light weight as it might not grow into the hole in the cylinder! You also need to consider oil too as castor oil forms a varnish on engine surfaces and along with splash lubricates and even in the event of starvation this varnish still lubricates. Modern oils and synthetics have high film strength and don't build a varnish film - simply put you can run a larger clearance with castor. Don't be tempted to run thick mono grade synthetics like Amsoil 60 or 50 race unless the piston is modern and the cylinder is bored to match. To be sure of the bore size use a bore gauge and measure top to bottom. I have in the past re sleeved an original bore to match a new lightweight piston which is a bloody shame when pistons graded in in .003thou sizes would be great. Back in the day you could get graded pistons!

If your cylinder is new from Bennetts hopefully they will have supplied it needing a final hone to suit the piston to be used? And use R.

I find on engines that will be used in real anger a larger clearance works best.
 
It's a Norton single crank. I'm going to try the parts washer (solvent tank). I'm in the process of rigging up a marine remote oil filter to the parts washer pump just to make sure what goes through the crank doesn't have any crap in it. (even though the solvent is pretty much new) The existing filter only removes the large lumps and the proper filter should cut the flow down from the new pump to a more manageable level.

The barrel from Bennett comes with a 78mm bore, so it'll require boring, plus the spigot is 1/4", so I need to cut it down to 1/8. I should have got him to cut it before he shipped it. The part that confused me about the clearance is his pistons are made by Omega. They are in his home town and he got them specially made, so perhaps they have characteristics similar to the originals. I do have this, but I don't know who the maker is and I don't know the CR. It looks like a lot to me and I don't really want to fart around with alcohol. Nor do I want to over stress anything below the barrel. It won't be ridden in anger for fear of doing irreparable damage to my wallet. It's going to be a bit of a mongrel, so won't be that fast anyway. I'll be happy if I can just get it to make all the proper noises and smell nice. Anyway... the piston.. It's new and is stamped std. The brown goo is the dreaded cosmoline. There isn't a whole lot of meat on the crown, so can't remove much.... not that I want to go that route.

Auto part Automotive piston Automotive engine part
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It's a Norton single crank. I'm going to try the parts washer (solvent tank). I'm in the process of rigging up a marine remote oil filter to the parts washer pump just to make sure what goes through the crank doesn't have any crap in it. (even though the solvent is pretty much new) The existing filter only removes the large lumps and the proper filter should cut the flow down from the new pump to a more manageable level.

The barrel from Bennett comes with a 78mm bore, so it'll require boring, plus the spigot is 1/4", so I need to cut it down to 1/8. I should have got him to cut it before he shipped it. The part that confused me about the clearance is his pistons are made by Omega. They are in his home town and he got them specially made, so perhaps they have characteristics similar to the originals. I do have this, but I don't know who the maker is and I don't know the CR. It looks like a lot to me and I don't really want to fart around with alcohol. Nor do I want to over stress anything below the barrel. It won't be ridden in anger for fear of doing irreparable damage to my wallet. It's going to be a bit of a mongrel, so won't be that fast anyway. I'll be happy if I can just get it to make all the proper noises and smell nice. Anyway... the piston.. It's new and is stamped std. The brown goo is the dreaded cosmoline. There isn't a whole lot of meat on the crown, so can't remove much.... not that I want to go that route.

View attachment 45777 View attachment 45785 View attachment 45793
Parts washer for the crank= perfect. I would also pump through also. If the crank has any rough cast faces concentrate effort there as that's were the crap sticks and hides. I never put assembled roller bearing cranks or assembled anything with working surfaces in contact in an ultrasonic tank.

Why on earth would a supplier send anything unfinished! The piston is massive but they were! If both piston and cylinder came from the same place why on earth did he not finish or offer too finish the cylinder to piston clearance? And if he knows the engine year why did he not finish the spigot? Seems you have money still to spend in these parts. I would ask Bennetts for a piston clearance figure top and bottom of the cylinder (if different) and not a range. Just tell them the shop who will be honing the bore need to know. Also you need to be careful with compression ratios on these old engines they need good high compression figures to run well. The won't run at all well if its too low and will be a bitch to start. You are going to need to build the engine and measure all, there is no other way out of doing this; The Manx engine is an engineering fitters dream, valve drops at TDC, exhaust valve to piston clearance and valve to valve overlap. Get your box of baseplates and shims ready you are going to need them, cam timing is simple enough.

For info I am not an early Manx expert but have worked on a few (also R7 and k10, Excelsior Manxman) and they are simple enough but its all in the running clearances. Good luck.
 
Yes plan on making a fitting for the timing side of the crank, so solvent can be pumped through the big end for a day. The ultrasonic cleaner hasn't arrived yet and it's not big enough to hold a crank assembly anyway, so I won't be tempted. Good point about the working surfaces... didn't think of that. I've been cleaning transmission bits getting them ready for the ultrasonic. There has to be an easier, less time consuming, more environmentally sound way to pre-clean parts. If I had the time and energy, I'd try building a wash cabinet with a good filtering system and a high pressure water pump that I have laying in the "some day I might use it pile".

I just got the cylinder from Bennett, it was a trade for another cylinder (for a later engine) that needed work also. If I had my wits about me, he would have cut the spigot if I asked. The piston I've had for a while, but don't know much about it's history.
I haven't done any Manx stuff, but have some limited experience with Inters. I do have a box with baseplates and shims (there is lots of play dough in the house), plus some shim stock if I have to go that route I'm still a ways away from assembling this thing, but want to clean inspect and sort things so I know what to track down. I do have a couple new double row ball bearings for the bevel drives, so I'm thankful for that. I can also order stuff randomly as the budget allows. I'll need time to recover from the mag rebuild which should be completed in a few weeks.
 
Yes plan on making a fitting for the timing side of the crank, so solvent can be pumped through the big end for a day. The ultrasonic cleaner hasn't arrived yet and it's not big enough to hold a crank assembly anyway, so I won't be tempted. Good point about the working surfaces... didn't think of that. I've been cleaning transmission bits getting them ready for the ultrasonic. There has to be an easier, less time consuming, more environmentally sound way to pre-clean parts. If I had the time and energy, I'd try building a wash cabinet with a good filtering system and a high pressure water pump that I have laying in the "some day I might use it pile".

I just got the cylinder from Bennett, it was a trade for another cylinder (for a later engine) that needed work also. If I had my wits about me, he would have cut the spigot if I asked. The piston I've had for a while, but don't know much about it's history.
I haven't done any Manx stuff, but have some limited experience with Inters. I do have a box with baseplates and shims (there is lots of play dough in the house), plus some shim stock if I have to go that route I'm still a ways away from assembling this thing, but want to clean inspect and sort things so I know what to track down. I do have a couple new double row ball bearings for the bevel drives, so I'm thankful for that. I can also order stuff randomly as the budget allows. I'll need time to recover from the mag rebuild which should be completed in a few weeks.
Thought Bennett supplied the piston. Measure the piston and send to Bennetts and ask for running clearance. They may want to know who made the piston though - I would buy another of known origin if I could not ID the maker of a piston I have its too risky*. You might be able to turn the excess spigot off but holding the bore is difficult as its a big lump. I would expect the engineering shop that will final cut the cylinder to size can shorten the spigot.

* I have perhaps a dozen piston for period single cylinder race bikes that I cannot ID the maker, none are marked, one I know came from Al Gunter. All sit neglected on a shelf.
 
what's the purpose of this?

and how does it work
 
what's the purpose of this?

and how does it work
It's an old crank and the engine doesn't run a filter, just a screen to keep the lumps out. There is no sludge trap in the crank that you can remove and clean out. It's not like a newer cross drilled crank that use can just clean with gun barrel cleaning rods etc. This would have to be disassembled to clean that way and you generally want to avoid taking these cranks apart unless you have to. It's hard on them and finding competent people (in my neighbourhood) to machine, reassemble and true them is difficult. Pumping solvent or diesel as jalsteve suggested, through the cranks oil passage will hopefully remove any crap that may have collected along the oil passageway and big end bearing. This crank has been sitting for a long time in an environment that wasn't all that great. It may have something living in it that needs to be evicted.
 
Neat, thanks for the explanation
 
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