Cafe Racer Forum banner

1963 Norton 650SS race bike. Am I up shits creek?

12357 Views 56 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  Sluggo503
I know nothing about Nortons, I have been in the market for one and just bought this on eBay. I may have a POS or not. I have never bought a Ike on eBay and I'm quite nervous about it. Land vehicle Vehicle Motorcycle Motor vehicle Car

Here is some of the description
No reserve - high bidder owns this 1963 Norton 650 Sports Special Dominator. Clean and clear title in hand
This 650 Sports Special was active in the 1960's at local Pacific Northwest tracks where it was raced by Bob Waring. The cover of Cycle magazine from May 1965 features this very same Norton 650 motorcycle in action during the Canadian Motorcycle Road Race Championship race at the old Westwood Racing Circuit in Vancouver B.C. forever capturing a tangible piece of this bike's race history.

Bob Waring has since passed on and one of the two previous owners of this bike since Bob added the street legal trim as presently seen in the pictures. I purchased this motorcycle from the last owner as a buy and hold considering the fact the 650/SS model was produced in limited numbers for 2 years only (1962 and 1963) making it a very rare bike in the USA since only a handful were exported from the home market. The race history was icing on the cake in my purchase decision. Here's the specs:

Frame#: 20 1048xx. Featherbed slimline frame.

Engine#: 18SS1048xxP. Engine turns over, I have not tried to start it.

Wheels: Twin leading shoe 8" vented front and 7" rear.

Front rim: C.Borrani Record-19 x 2 1/4 -TD 324 A with Dunlop Racing KR76 3.00-19 tire
Rear rim: C.Borrani Record-19 x 2 1/2-TD 324 B with Dunlop Roadmaster TT100 3.60 H19 tire
These shouldered alloy rims are possibly from a BSA Goldstar...

Gas tank: Aluminum alloy dual oil/gas tank in the classic Norton design style with aircraft style flip-up gas caps and internal race style baffling from unknown maker. Paul Dunstall??

Bumstop seat: Fi-glass Limited of Edenbridge Kent is the name on the badge, made in England.

In true race bike form there is no center stand or even a kick starter-this bike is bump start only! I verified the engine turns over because the gearbox clicks through all the gears and in the top gears you can rotate the rear wheel by hand and hear the engine turning over. The gearbox inspection cap was taped over when I received the bike so I sealed the peephole again when I got it before I washed the bike and inspected it. It really is a period race correct bike with safety wiring on parts and evidence of racing hard as seen by the rash on the right header and very end of the right muffler (possibly Dunstall mufflers?). That seems to be the extent of the rash although the right clipon might have unseen end damage because the grips are unscarred and are newer Doherty units.

Carbs are Amal 1 5/32 Monoblocs with GP/TT type Amal remote float chambers. The frame looks good with some ancillary tabs removed, all the major mounting points are present and accounted for that I can determine. Frame and engine number and gearbox number will be revealed to the winning bidder only out of respect to the winning bidder (the last two numbers are all factory stock OEM stampings). It looks like the original 6v electrical system has been retained as evidenced by the 3 cell battery and the brakes actuate freely and the clutch lever still actuates the cable and hardware.
The front and rear hubs are Norton Manx magnesium hubs.
The front forks are Norton Manx and the swing arm is Manx too.
The gas tank is factory Norton but likely someone has welded the oil tank onto the Norton tank. The internal race style baffling is the correct dimpled hole design style as used by the Norton factory.
The magneto is special, no one as of yet has identified it and I find no stamped #'s or riveted tags, so if there is identification on the magneto body it is hidden by installation.
The two valve assembly on the right side under the seat is an anti-sumping oil line shut off valve. The lines to the oil tank are disconnected.
The toggle switches on the left side under the seat are for the charging system and lighting system. There is a handwritten wiring diagram explaining the function of these 2 switches in all the papers and letters and drawings and diagram specs I received in the purchase of this Norton
The 2nd owner of this 650SS was Sir Edward Bilton-Smith. The title for this bike is from 1974 and the name shown on the title is Edward C. Bilton-Smith. If you do a quick search on y0utube for "Sir Eddy Edward Bilton-Smith Norton Celebration of Life" video you will see this very same Norton 650SS you see here on eBay shown in that video at 3:29 into the video.

Also, a very knowledgeable Norton enthusiast has solved the magneto mystery. It's a Lucas square body 2MTT magneto but a rare and unique one with 2 spark leads.
Here is a pic of the bike from the video when Edward C. Bilton-Smith owned it Land vehicle Vehicle Motor vehicle Motorcycle Car
See less See more
2
1 - 3 of 57 Posts
I know nothing about Nortons, I have been in the market for one and just bought this on eBay. I may have a POS or not. I have never bought a Ike on eBay and I'm quite nervous about it. View attachment 88689

Bob Waring has since passed on and one of the two previous owners of this bike
Frame#: 20 1048xx
The 2nd owner of this 650SS was Sir Edward Bilton-Smith. The title for this bike is from 1974 and the name shown on the title is Edward C. Bilton-Smith. If you do a quick search on y0utube for "Sir Eddy Edward Bilton-Smith Norton Celebration of Life" video you will see this very same Norton 650SS you see here on eBay shown in that video at 3:29 into the video.

Here is a pic of the bike from the video when Edward C. Bilton-Smith owned it View attachment 88697
Hi, new member and reviving a old thread I was surprised to find on a websearch.
You SHOULD be nervous!! Some one sold you a load of Bull excrement!

I know this as a fact. I was friends with Eddy Bilton-Smith for 30+/- years and marketed him and his products and services.

Fun Fact: In our circle of friends we knew a lot of Ed's, so we decided each would get a nickname & "Male Model Ed" came up with "SirEdward" Because he was English & a royal PIA. Later some guys nicknamed me "Squire Doug".

I'm not sure how a title ended up in Eddies name from 1974 but none of it makes sense. The time line is totally off as well. I know all the details and I have his original frame and bodywork from the bike and his engine build notes and racing logbook noting specs, settings and tuning data as well as changes and experiments.

If you have questions, let me know, but here's the high points.

Eddy immigrated from the UK in late 50s and served a abbreviated term in the US Air Force to get US citizenship but got out early. ( The USAF wasn't happy and neither was Eddy)

Eddy was a talented Tool & Die machinist & earned his wings under apprenticeship at Glacier bearings in the UK and working a variety of jobs here in the US. He ordered a new Norton Manxman thru Archie Stanley here in Portland Oregon and the very 1st Manxman in the Western US.

Eddy tore it apart and blueprinted it and mild performance upgrades, and I see some one quoted me from Access Norton on the cam specs, Eddy used to call the UK and talked to several tuners but the cam idea came from Paul Dunstall.

Over several years he upgraded it, and here's where your story goes sideways. Eddy swapped the original frame for a Manx rolling chassis. Those are lighter chrome moly Reynolds 530. Manx hubs and forks.
The Manxman 650 is a bit different than a 650SS but the salient point is the Manxman twins used a regular road going frame, forks and wheels. The Manx 500 single is a whole different kettle of fish.

At one point, famous Racer, mostly known for Triumphs, Sonny Burres was racing a Norton in TT, he asked if he could use Sir Eddies engine so Eddy swapped it into the dirt track chassis. Sonny is still alive and can confirm this. Sonny is a very talented racer, and a good wrench but Eddy was in his own realm so Sonny knew his best chance to win was Eddies engine.

They went to the national up in Idaho where Sonny won the race and TL Hoagland, Eddy's best friend won his class on a Norton that Eddy also built & tuned.

THAT'S the picture on the cover of the magazine, not this bike. But Sir Eddies engine in Sonny's bike, TL Hoagland and " Noted tuner Ed Bilton-Smith" standing in between.

This led to Berliner offering appearance money to race in California "As long as Norton wins, I don't care who is riding ".

During a tuning session at Portland PIR local racer Glenn Adams asked to take it around the track. He purposely laid it over to starve the oil and revved it till it grenaded.

Eddy was devastated but tuned Sonny's engine but it wasn't as fast, Berliner caught on and was angry. Eddy quit racing. Allied Motors called and offered a lot of money for the blown engine. They were angry nothing was tricked out or custom thinking they would learn Eddie's tricks not understanding what really happened.

Eddy sold the rolling chassis in 65-66. But that was the Manx chassis. Years later in 1990s I bought a basket case Manxman with parts of a 750 Atlas motor and a abused gearbox. Several people had raced the Manxman chassis and drag racing as well with different engines. I have the original tank, red seat, and bodywork including stock fenders and the Blue oil tank and toolbox/battery box but the frame was repainted weird green and some one drilled a ton of holes in the mounting plates.

There's no way you have Sir Eddies matching numbers engine and frame. The engine was blown up, sold and scrapped. I have the original frame and parts.
* I bought another 650 motor but it's not the original. I'm building the bike back to the original specs prior to the Manx 500 frame swap.

** In the early 2000s Eddy called me and wanted to go racing again and building a landspeed record bike. Our team was Eddy, Les at Littles engine service, Fairly Honest Mike of F&W fame and me. We purchased a cafe racer Dommi 500 from the UK and imported it. However it was too weak and spindly, so I showed it as a period cafe bike still with the UK plates at the San Jose All British Clubmans show, but sold it a few months later. We built the LSR out of pieces and I supplied most of the engine which we built a very custom 270 degree 500 out of a 750. ( Long story about that)

So, Eddy and Les built a Honda for his son to race in the early 80s, and in late 70s Eddy built "Horton" which was a built CB750 big bore 810cc Honda SOHC/4 in a Commando chassis. I sold Horton for Eddy on FeeBay but after Eddie died, one of his sons tracked down Horton and bought it back.

Eddy and I were promoting the LSR project and were at the INOA Norton rally in Oregon mid 2000s, We also had Horton and a Norton Commando Hi rider at that event if any of you were there. ( Eddy was ill & in a foul mood so apologies if you got yelled at)

I have no idea where a title for a bike that doesn't exist from 1974 came from, but some one got creative.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Vehicle Helmet

Tire Wheel Sky Plant Fuel tank


This is the real Sir Edward at the track up in BC Canada that is now a housing development but was called "Westwood".

My friend Todd Copan ran for many years the bike show and swap meet in Tswassen BC Canada and some time in the Mid 2000s I was up there promoting the NW Vintage Car and motorcycle museum here in Oregon and events I was promoting at our museum, I came across a bunch of guys promoting the former racing club that put on events at Westwood.

Among the photos I noticed pictures that had Eddy in them, so I called Eddy and told him, walked up and pretended to be angry with them not having Eddy's permission and I was his promoter and manager. Copyright and they owed us money 💰 🤑!!!

They were horrified and embarrassed....🤣😜😳, Ha! Canadians!!! Always so polite!

So, I had to calm them down they were not in trouble and I was not mad at them, nor was Eddy. But they remembered him and I handed them my phone and they exchanged information, as result, one of them wrote a hilarious story from their point of view of the mad Englishman from Oregon who came up and raced in their events.

Eddy was living here in Portland Oregon, but raced all over road racing but also drag racing in 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile events, and as mentioned he installed his engine in Sonny Burres dirt tracker TT bike.

After the Glen Adams debacle, Eddy was raising a family and was so upset about the incident he decided to quit racing and focus on work and family. * I might be wrong on the exact year Eddy sold the chassis, but I am certain it wasn't as late as 74.

He was a multi talented guy, and later he started offering custom parts and specialized engine blue printing I was promoting. There's a lot more, a heck of a lot more, but I hope that answers what the real story is. 2nd owner! Sheesh 🙄!!
See less See more
2
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Wheel Automotive tire Wood Bumper Motor vehicle

Here's the actual frame in storage, I will mock it up soon as I plan to take it to the INOA rally.
Somebody painted it green and went to town on the mount plates, they transmission was heavily modified as well, 3/4" alloy plate welded on to beef up the main & layshaft bearings.
You can see the original blue factory paint on the tool/battery box, the factory paint is over the factory black and different shade from the fuel tank.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 2
1 - 3 of 57 Posts
Top