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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
Roller chain is so easy to break once you grind the pins off flush with the side plate, a small punch and a hammer will knock them apart, cir-clip master links are easy to put on and makes regular cleaning service super simple.
For a master link riveter you will need to buy a nice expensive tool, that you will likely use once every two or three years.
(y) spend large on the rivet tool and put it somewhere you can find it easy in 3 years, ... and make sure you assemble them correctly before you rivet, or stock up on spare cir-clip master links with extra rubber rings.
So the circling ones just go together like a bicycle?
Roller chain is so easy to break once you grind the pins off flush with the side plate, a small punch and a hammer will knock them apart, cir-clip master links are easy to put on and makes regular cleaning service super simple.
For a master link riveter you will need to buy a nice expensive tool, that you will likely use once every two or three years.
(y) spend large on the rivet tool and put it somewhere you can find it easy in 3 years, ... and make sure you assemble them correctly before you rivet, or stock up on spare cir-clip master links with extra rubber rings.
Roller chain is so easy to break once you grind the pins off flush with the side plate, a small punch and a hammer will knock them apart, cir-clip master links are easy to put on and makes regular cleaning service super simple.
For a master link riveter you will need to buy a nice expensive tool, that you will likely use once every two or three years.
(y) spend large on the rivet tool and put it somewhere you can find it easy in 3 years, ... and make sure you assemble them correctly before you rivet, or stock up on spare cir-clip master links with extra rubber rings.
That information just saved me $90.00 THANK YOU! what is your opinion on o-ring/x-ring chain? The original chain lasted 9,000 miles/42 years.. I'm not convinced I need rubber in the drivetrain.
 

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So the circling ones just go together like a bicycle?
That information just saved me $90.00 THANK YOU! what is your opinion on o-ring/x-ring chain? The original chain lasted 9,000 miles/42 years.. I'm not convinced I need rubber in the drivetrain.
O and X ring chains are far superior to standard roller chains. They last a lot longer and are less prone to creating tight spots in the chain. Don't believe the hype about not needing lube. The rollers need lube on the outside so as to reduce wear on them and the sprockets.

Also, although the O/X ring keeps the lube inside the link, they need a little lube to lessen the friction with the link plates and increase their usable life. You just have to buy an O/X ring safe chain lube - most are nowadays.

Once installed and 'bedded in' and regularly lubed, you will get many miles between chain adjustments.

You already have rubber in the drivetrain - the cush drive rubbers in the rear hub ;)
 

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I use non-sealed chain on everything I can and replace them before they stretch enough to kill the sprockets. It's an elongated chain that puts fast wear on the sprockets because the pitch of the chain has changed and the forces are no longer being carried on all the teeth and all the rollers.
The different types of rubber seal they use only makes a difference in how the rubber touches the steel, one point of contact or more, but the limiting factor on all sealed chain is how well they packed the chain with grease prior to assembly, and how well that grease stays in there to displace water. It's water and subsequently rust that ultimately destroys the steel unless you physically break it which is far from easy. If you have links that bind, that is the result of rust happening where it should not be.
The purpose of lubricant on the outside surfaces of the roller chain is to prevent surface rust and that is all. That can be accomplished with oil or wax and it only requires a thin layer. You certainly don't want to put anything on rubber seals that makes the rubber swell up or that will destroy the seals and kill the chain quick. Not a great place to use solvents or lubricants that are combined with solvents and change the nature of the rubber.
The motivation for fitting a sealed chain is little to no maintenance and little to no oil fling off the moving chain, but you can't re-lubricate the sealed chain past good rubber seals any more then dirt and water can get past those same rubber seals, so sealed chain is virtually as disposable as a non-sealed chain.
Plain heavy-duty roller chain aka Race chain is cheaper, lighter and super easy to clean and re-lubricate with no danger of solvents harming the chain.

... and if all of that is too much for anybody to handle :cool: that's why they make shaft drive motorcycles
 

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So the circling ones just go together like a bicycle?
...
Cir-clip master link needs to be put on with a link plate on each side and the rubber seals (if so equipped) in the right places. The cir-clip needs to be installed so it does not get knocked off when the chain moves.
I've seen master links installed incorrectly on lots of motorcycles, in fact it's nothing short of amazing how many ways people can find to install a master link incorrectly.

Bicycles that use derailleur sprockets to change gears can't use cir-clip master links because to change gears the chain needs to be pushed sideways, that's why they are always fitted with rivet type masters making it an endless chain. On a motorcycle side forces on the chain are not a normal occurrence.
 

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The longest lasting chain you can find on any motorcycle is a plain non-sealed roller chain that rides in a chain casing partially filled with clean oil. Enclosed chain drive with a lubricating bath. Plenty of motorcycle had that in the olden days and they still use that drive system in most snowmobiles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #187 ·
Cir-clip master link needs to be put on with a link plate on each side and the rubber seals (if so equipped) in the right places. The cir-clip needs to be installed so it does not get knocked off when the chain moves.
I've seen master links installed incorrectly on lots of motorcycles, in fact it's nothing short of amazing how many ways people can find to install a master link incorrectly.

Bicycles that use derailleur sprockets to change gears can't use cir-clip master links because to change gears the chain needs to be pushed sideways, that's why they are always fitted with rivet type masters making it an endless chain. On a motorcycle side forces on the chain are not a normal occurrence.
If I had to guess i would say it's best to orient the open side of the circlip opposite of the direction the chain travels?
 

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If I had to guess i would say it's best to orient the open side of the circlip opposite of the direction the chain travels?
The clip is shaped like a squid and it needs to travel just like a squid, round end first with the legs behind (y)
To measure your chain for wear hang it on a nail next to the new chain, compare the length difference, here is a chain that is worn by about .7 percent ( not quite 1 full link of stretch over the length of the roughly 100 link chain ) this would be considered an early replacement.
Also note the thickness of the side plates is different, the replacement chain is heavier duty then the original.
Automotive tire Wood Gear Winery Bicycle part

Automotive tire Gear Wood Font Engineering
 

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Bummer, now I want a new back tire, I think I might need to switch the rear tire off the Montesa :unsure:
... or buy another tire

Then while I'm in there I might as well repack the linkage bearings in both bikes and put the best of the used chains onto the Montesa. :cool: Contessa sees more riding in winter.
 

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Its worth safety wiring that clip as well... at least thats what I've seen done. I generally use the riveted links
 

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I've never had a problem with circlip joining links - either on O-ring chains or standard roller chains. Putting them on an O-ring chain can be a bit of a hassle because you have to compress the link plates against the O-rings to get the clip on. Judicious use of some vice grips helps a lot.
 

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Bent rear sprocket or cooked rear wheel bearing will throw a chain fast, misalignment is disastrous to a roller chains operation. Seen that happen more then anything else. Those cushion rear hubs need to stay in alignment, which usually means keeping the bearings good and the swingarm bushing or bearings good.
holy wind! be a good day for sailing
 

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+1 on the riveter tool. Spend some money. The cheap ones DO NOT work well, and you will likely not get a full master done with one. Ask me how I know...

I have had issues with circlip masters in the past where the clip came off. Each time I was lucky enough that it did not come completely apart, and I noticed it before it did. When I use to use them, I always carried an extra master in my tool kit. Once I finally broke down, and paid some money for a good chain riveter, I have been using them ever since. Never a problem since then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #197 ·
+1 on the riveter tool. Spend some money. The cheap ones DO NOT work well, and you will likely not get a full master done with one. Ask me how I know...

I have had issues with circlip masters in the past where the clip came off. Each time I was lucky enough that it did not come completely apart, and I noticed it before it did. When I use to use them, I always carried an extra master in my tool kit. Once I finally broke down, and paid some money for a good chain riveter, I have been using them ever since. Never a problem since then.
I was thinking I'd grab one of these:
Automotive lighting Product Font Rectangle Book

It runs about $100 and I know there are cheaper ones but imagine how heartbreaking it would be to fuck up a $125.00 chain with a subpar tool.
 

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Damn.... someone already put an o-ring chain on this joint. Here i was thinking it was original..... maybe I should save it View attachment 106766
what, you mean you found a removable master link somewhere after you ground a side plate off?
what parts do you plan on saving?
 
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