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Another Monster comes, with new issues

8K views 39 replies 7 participants last post by  woodsman 
#1 ·
Bought this lovely hitter, 1000s ie. The picture shows the damaged side, a tank dent is the worst of of the cosmetics. The Ohlins and exhaust are upgrades. The po has fucked up the signals/taillight with cheap led's. Overall it is a cheap fix cosmetically.

Put a battery in it, the dash cycles and immobilizer light goes out, hit the trigger...nothing. Put a meter on it found the solenoid was nfg, put in a good one and still nothing. The starter is good. Anyone no of inherent problems with the switch or applicable wiring?
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#2 · (Edited)
Sounds like the kind of bike for which an electrical schematic diagram does not exist,
but the original wiring diagram is still the best place to start and try to make all the critical stuff happy by that.

... if the solenoid is fried, there is a lot of other stuff that could be fried.

Side stand switch and pretty much every other safety device is highly suspect, they only put that stuff on there to aggravate the end customer anyway :|
 
#3 ·
I take it there is a fuse protecting the wiring to the solenoid? Have you checked it? Just to prove the engine will turn place a short across the solenoid to see if it'll turn over. No point trying if the engine is seized. It still won't start with a shorted solenoid as the safeties will still kill sparks and fuel feed.

A recent Bandit I picked up had a poor earth cable coming from the battery. The safeties had been linked out and whilst it would start as soon as it went into gear it would die. It was the smallest of cables and a connector was high resistance. Cut it off and replaced with another and it cured all ills. Yours is no Suzuki but the principles will be the same. My daughters boyfriends bike will turn over on the electric start or on the boot all day but if the side stand is left down it won't fire.
 
#6 ·
Oh to behold the sacred wiring diagram. Alas I have spent all my money on broken toys and now can't afford a real manual so I'm surfin' for freebies. It's easier to find info on vintage stuff then these.

Starter works, engine turns, fuel pump went bzzzzzt. Loose post on the solenoid, broken internally. No visual indication that anything has shorted.

Safety switches sounds like a good starting point. Kickstand sensor may be the culprit it took a bit of the impact in that area.
 
#15 ·
if the ecu is getting an input from the start button, and nothing is coming out, it's the ecu. try earthing the earth side of the solenoid trigger. if it cranks, again most likely ecu.

is the neutral light on? it is an ecu input. as are the clutch and side stand switches, and starting is controlled by an ecu start logic circuit based on them all.

diagnostic tool will tell you what the ecu is seeing. that's what you need to know.
 
#20 ·
Ordered the cable.

I just found a 2003 620 that has no keys or card. The bike is good but it'll likely go for parts bike price. My partner is quite comfortable, provided the proper software, with epoxy covered chips and reprogramming, a specialty in his past life. Do you know if the software will allow him to read and reprogram the immo chip so we could make keys?
 
#17 ·
Ideally, you should buy another monster ;) one that runs. Absolutely nothing makes trouble-shooting easier then having two nearly identical bikes, you just swap parts until the problem appears on the other one, if the problem never goes to the other bike the problem is not with those parts :| is so easy.
 
#21 ·
you can reflash the ecu to disable the immo function. the immo, which is in the dash, wants to see the correct code from the key. if it doesn't, it doesn't send the code to the ecu to say it can start. if you disable the immo function in the ecu file, the ecu simply ignores the immo and activates the start function when the button is pushed. then you get a key cut with the correct mechanical code and away you go. the immo light on the dash will still act like it has the shits (because it does), often goes out when you open the throttle while running.

if you disable the immo function in the ecu file, you can also run it without a dash or with any sort of aftermarket dash, and any key.

i don't know if anyone can make keys to suit a dash (immo) with the dash only. maybe they can, i don't get into that. there are people around who specialise in working with the dashes.

guzzidiag allows you to read the eeprom as well, which is where the updateable stuff - idle trim and immo code - is stored, but i've never played with it to know what you can do. if you could virginise the ecu it'd work in another bike with the original immo and key, but not if you don't have an original key.
 
#25 ·
It was to cold for salt when I picked it up, it's the limestone powder from the gravel at the compound, now frozen mud. I don't usually need to wash anything this size in the winter and I can't be sure my floor drain will drain with the series of weather events we have had. I heat 400sqft of the Palace in the winter but it's my clean area. If I need to do wood or metal work I just wait until we are above -5c and I'm good to go. Tomorrow looks like a potential wash day, outside the south side of the building should get in to positive temp numbers, according to the weather guessers.
 
#27 · (Edited)
lol Only in Canada eh ;)
... your $ is currently 31% inflated and you are not subjected to our 13% sales tax on absolutely everything. Don't complain about the cost of stuff, you guys have it good right now.

;) if you talk real nice to the woodsman maybe he will cut you a good deal.
 
#29 ·
The 1000 ecu.
My partner has worked through the software and feels he has a pretty good grasp on it's use but you really don't know what you know until you fuck up. We do have an issue with the ecu that leads us to believe it may be NFG and are now in the process of sorting the replacement of the unit. There is always a problem with rookies not really sure what they are looking at. It is not quite as simple as buying another and sticking it in, there are a couple of options for ecu's each with different software requirements. We are just checking availability of used parts and then want to confirm that what we would buy should work in the bike's system.

Got the 620 unloaded and cleaned up. Other than a couple small dents in the tank, which I can pull, it is a decent bike, so we'll fix and flip. I bought a box of used parts for $200 that has the brackets, foot pegs and brake lever. As well as the taillight the 620 needs. So I have pulled the ignition and the seat lock out of the bike and taken it to our locksmith to get keys cut.

Just want to acknowledge that the amount of information that we have got from Brad's post across the different forums has been priceless. We however can't afford priceless. We could offer the only true international biker currency, if someone can tell us how to get a case of beer delivered in Australia.

Tank has a few dings, clean inside.
Auto part Wheel
 
#30 ·
I took the ecu from the 620 and my partner made a copy of the data that was on it. He then loaded the software from the 1000 into the 620's ecu, the 1000 fired right up and ran like a champ. We need to track down another ecu but we are 2 out of 3 in the running bike department now. Hopefully with a key for the 620 we will have all 3 going.
 
#31 ·
are you aware of the ecu differences?

there's two types - 59m and 5am. files do not interchange between them. i think they have different processors. visually identical, and functionally identical with the appropriate file loaded. 5am is more physically reliable than 59m.

there are two types of 5am. hw103 and hw610. files do not interchange. my tool assumes i know what i'm doing, and i've bricked a few 103 forgetting to check and trying to flash 610 files into them.

also, early m620 don't have a clutch switch and there's a specific file for them. a later file won't start, and you have to earth a pin in the ecu to make it go. how you get into the connector and actually do that i've never worked out. i had a customer fit a 900 engine into a very early 620 and even the 2002 m900ie file wouldn't start.

so when you read a file from an ecu record the ducati number and the marelli software # in the saved file name. there is a ducati sequence # on the sticker - 001 >, a ducati part # - 2864xxxxxx for oem, 965xxxxxx for ducati performance and the marelli software # - S20DG119 for example. 59m often have no real identification in the file itself, so it can make it hard.
 
#33 ·
We have been reading non stop and have run across a pile of your posts dealing with ecu's, one which covered the basics of the models. I am not a techy, a bin is where I keep parts, so I pass your comments on to my partner. This is really up his alley so he has been like a kid in a candy store learning this stuff. We will put the ecu back in the 620 with it's original file and are working on getting another unit for the 1000. The 1000 has a 59M so one from a 2001 S4 should work?

The 620 has an up swept Remus exhaust and the top of the air box has been removed. The po added a power commander. Would the PC have been added rather than programming a new tune?
 
#34 ·
We have learned a couple le$$ons regarding used Ducati parts. The 1000's front rim has a bend, subtle but it's there. The red Brembo 3 spoke wheel is not an easy thing to find. The other option is getting a plain one and have it powder coated. Finding a matching used clutch lever and switch is proving difficult as well. Japanese clutch switch $5, Moto Guzzi $25, Ducati $75 all are a basic plunger micro switch.

Bought another ECU for it, he dumped the original ECU's programming into the new to us and it started right up.

The oil in the 620 was as bad as I've seen in an engine, just a brown sludge. I wrapped a heat cable around the block, got it hot and drained the oil. Poured in a hot fresh litre, let it sit and then drained and it came out relatively clean. No filings detectable with magnet and magnifying glass. Hopefully the engine is sound.

The locksmith has got keys working for it's ignition and tank/seat locks. The immobilizer has been turned off in the ECU and the theory is that I can put everything back in place then it will fire up and run like a champion.

Today started out a bright, sunny -34C and is to be bitter for the balance. Just can't get excited about going out and warming up the shop.
 
#35 ·
Managed to fuck up my back and laid me up for a few days, I am going again now. It may be hard to believe but it was 40C warmer yesterday then when I posted 10 days ago. We needed a burst of springish weather.

Got the 620 put back together. I initially screwed up by grounding the ecu to the battery. I don't understand why but the ecu ground must run to the mounting post of the ecu or it will not work. The fuel pump and the relay both just chatter if the ecu is not grounded in the right spot. Any thoughts on why it works this way?

Once I realized my error and corrected it the bike fired right up. It runs with no obvious problems. I didn't run it long as I don't understand the Power Commander so I have no idea if it is set properly. I would hate to find it was running lean. 5C today so I can move it outside and wash it.

The one downside in getting the 620 running is I can now see it has 67,000km (41,000miles). With the shape the oil was in it doesn't make me confident that its 67,000 well maintained km's.
 
#40 ·
Got the plunger and finally got a chance to put it in. I had to cut it down to get it to fit. I also got the paint match but it has been so hot and humid that there was no way I was putting on a mask so I could drip sweat on fresh paint. I'll get it done when we get a couple cool days.

I did get to take the 620 for a run and I can see how it ended up on the ground. It has a very short throttle, which took some getting use to, connected to an instantaneous and surprising amount of grunt. The tires are 7 years old and do not inspire confidence, hard enough rubber they feel almost overinflated, so it was a short run. Well that and no plate. I would need to change the ergos a bit if I were riding it any distance, cramped at the hip.
 
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