Cafe Racer Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, my SB8R Bimota is fighting me.....HARD
Reason I ask for TL1000 help is because that is what the motor is for the bike.

So, the history.
Started bike after a long slumber and found the radiators to be leaking. The bike got hot, but I didnt think that the motor over heated.
The bike had A LOT of corrosion to the internals of the water jackets. Cleaned and flushed them.

Installed new radiators, we will NOT talk about the cost....
Bleed the system, run the bike for a bit....no leaks.

Take it for a road test and the temps start falling....A LOT.
Pull over, the radiators are dry, and cold.
103882

Coolant ended up in the oil sump. That over filled and cam out the breather into the airbox.
What a mess.
103883


SSSSOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Head gaskets?

I did have one other thought.
The water pump seal could have failed. I know that most say that if the seal goes back that fluid (either coolant or oil) will leak out the weep hole. I do not remember seeing that, nor really see that now.
The case has deffinetly suffered some corrosion, so I do suspect the seal has not lived a good life.
103884

103885

103886


Do I just pull the motor and do the head gaskets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I really just do not want to open the motor.
Like at all.

But agree, it is most likely the head gaskets.
Ordered the parts today.

I was surprised that there was no smoke from the exhaust. Guess the failure was between the water jacket and oil passages, not the water jacket to cylinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,221 Posts
Ya it sucks. The motor produces enough pressure to push **** almost anywhere. Gasket is the good scenario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,900 Posts
My first guess would've have been head gasket (a compression test might confirm), but that seems a lot of coolant to lose in a short space of time.
How many seals were in the water pump?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Ya it sucks. The motor produces enough pressure to push **** almost anywhere. Gasket is the good scenario.
As he usually is TR sounds as if he's on the right track. At the risk of sounding repetitive I'd do a leak down test before I pulled the engine apart. I'll admit I'd do that only because I'm a wee bit lazy and would rather not be pulling the engine out of the chassis and taking it apart.. This is one time that after looking at the pictures you posted I'd be willing to bet that coffee and cream colored oil in the sight window indicates water and oil mixing and that is not a good thing. Good news here is that even if you rebuilt the engine the motorbike will have some real value so you are not pouring your rupees down a large hole in the garden.

By the way just an aside and only because a professor ridiculed me for the same thing. Motors run on electricity and engines run on dead dinosaurs. A motor starts your motorcycle engine LOL I was even foolish enough to argue over this with the professor over the point. I lost; common usage didn't even work.:geek: Cheers !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,221 Posts
I figure motors are just tiny, like a putt motor.
Engine implies a serious piece of machinery. Like an aircraft engine or Steam engine :cool:

Motors are a lot like pumps.
;) and btw you called it a motorbike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,221 Posts
Enginebike



:unsure: sounds a little ** up to me
I just want to ride my Enginecycle Enginesickle
Enginesickle works I could live with that (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Enginebike



:unsure: sounds a little ** up to me
I just want to ride my Enginecycle Enginesickle
Enginesickle works I could live with that (y)
LOL. keep in mind TR now calling one of our vehicles a MOTORCYCLE could be correct usage of the term "motor" as part of the name without referring to long dead lizards as an energy source. Then again I guess it has a lot to do with where you are obtaining your electrons from........................could still be dead lizards now that I think about it. o_O

By the way I still think stevo has a blown head gasket ('s) but I'd still do a leak-down just to be sure I'm not trying to fix some sort of catastrophic problem rather than a simple head surface and gasket set.

Hey Stevo ! Just wondering I thought there were two configurations of that style motorbike but not sure what the differences were. I do know that most of the problems with the TL's was not engine related but more about shock and rear suspension control arm issues. Engines were pretty good; not for rockets but pretty good. So my question is, was there two different engines or two different chassis's as I recall there was a hotrod version.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
My first guess would've have been head gasket (a compression test might confirm), but that seems a lot of coolant to lose in a short space of time.
How many seals were in the water pump?
Just adding some more thoughts. You are pretty much stuck pulling the engine apart as water is a crappy lubricant so you'll need to look at the bearing surfaces as I suspect you have no idea how much the engine was run in steam power mode. It is still a good idea to see how well the cylinders are sealing (leak-down test or at least pressurize the cylinders and listen for leaks) Because this motorbike will be valuable it's worth doing the engine right and because the majority of the job is your labor make sure you check-out all the potential problem areas before you screw it back together.

From what you have said and your photographs my guess would be that the water pump was leaking fluid (leaking at the seal) Coolant gets real low (on some engines if it gets low enough and you start the engine dry the temp gauge/light will not come on until the engine is cooking itself because there is no coolant near the temp sender . If that happens then the sender responds only when the metal around it gets hot enough) the bike is taken out on the road and starts running poorly (pinging and knocking) so it's stopped a but the radiators are not that hot (no coolant in them to get hot) so the rider thinks how bad can this be ? If this is what happened then that engine got very,very hot. You then do need to look at the whole engine and make sure there are no problems hiding in there. You need to look at things like have the rings lost their tension, are other gaskets cooked so as soon as you build up crankcase pressure will they begin to leak. There are springs and things inside that engine that don't mind some heat but god knows how hot the thing got so it does need to be looked at.

What I don't know in your case is how best to approach repair. If it was just a Suzuki TL I'd find an engine that was running the last time it was shut off buy it and rebuild it. Now in the case of a limited production motorbike such as yours I'm unsure if that's the best option. I've done some vintage automobile restorations and with those if you replace the engine (there fore change the engine numbers) you;ve really hurt the value. Is that an issue with the motorbike you are working on ? I for one have no idea. I don't even know if that model Suzuki even had engine numbers. What I will pass along is in today's world cool old stuff is mostly going up in value. I work with vintage bikes, guns and some old west bits and things; everything is gaining in value. All this BS said nothing has any value until you are ready to sell it and have the selling dollars in your hand. But it is a cool looking unique motorbike so I suspect that it's going to at least hold it's value which is something most things will not. Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,005 Posts
Jaguar, you are asking the wrong question.

Step 1: determine what the problem is
Step 2: decide how to go about fixing it

Of course, I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

Someone suggested a compression check and that's a great place to start, but do a leakdown test as Rich suggested, and determine if there's a compression leak. Next, test the cooling system with a radiator pressure test. You should be able to loan one from a local parts store.

Those should help you to decide what the issue is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,575 Posts
The water pump seals on those motors were garbage. I think I replaced 3 on my TL1000S. That being said, the tell tale on all of them was leaking out the weep hole. But if the weep hole is blocked, the mechanical seal protecting the crank case isn’t going to stop it long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
It is a long shot for sure that the weep hole is plugged and hiding the issue.

As others have said, and I know deep down......
This motor needs to be opened up, inspected and issues addressed.

I'm just pulling at straws and trying not to except what is right in front of me.
This motor got hot twice in my care, while I honestly did not think it got hot enough to damage things obviously I was wrong.

Will do the leak down and pressure test to absolutely confirm the issues.
Gasket kit and some other parts are already in the mail.

Not thrilled, but it is what it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rich46

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
It is a long shot for sure that the weep hole is plugged and hiding the issue.

As others have said, and I know deep down......
This motor needs to be opened up, inspected and issues addressed.

I'm just pulling at straws and trying not to except what is right in front of me.
This motor got hot twice in my care, while I honestly did not think it got hot enough to damage things obviously I was wrong.

Will do the leak down and pressure test to absolutely confirm the issues.
Gasket kit and some other parts are already in the mail.

Not thrilled, but it is what it is.
We all hope for the easy and plan for disaster so looks as if you are moving in the right direction. Truly wish you good luck onlya water pump would be nice. Cheers Rich:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I cant complain much. I am normally fairly lucky when it comes to these projects. Also it isnt like I dont have other exotics in the garage to go out and ride.

Am super interested in finding, inspecting and better understanding the "core plugs" or freeze plugs on this engine.
My fear is that since so much of the cooling system got corroded from sitting that those plugs could be damaged. Have not been able to find much information or images of them.
Also been tied up so no time to go digging into the engine. It would not 100% rule out still having to do the head gaskets, but is very much a possible source of the leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,221 Posts
Does it even have frost plugs? They would be thin steel plugs strategically pressed into the castings and when they fail the leakage is normally very apparent.


... found this:


They look more like plugs that were located to accommodate machining of the parts during production then plugs designed to prevent freezing and cracking of the castings. Plus they are under the cams so considerable disassembly will still be required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Yeah they are apparently under the cams.
Most of the TL guys claim head gasket failure is super uncommon. Even with high temps.

They also claim that the casting/core/freeze plugs are known to fail if the system is filled with water for a long time.
This bike most definitely did not have the proper coolant in it when it was sitting. That junk ate the radiators, two alloy cross over pipes, the steel tubes from the cylinders to the thermostat, the water pump cover and took the finish off the internal parts of the water pump. All around bad shit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,221 Posts
(y) Frost plugs just became the #1 suspect, considering they are made from different material then the parts they are in contact with.
On the up side they are just stupid simple, cheap, pressed or glued in plugs that perform no other real function. Your compression test results just became a little more important, those plugs are not related to combustion chamber compression so compression should be consistent between all the cylinders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Have class tonight, so will take a look tomorrow morning.

Ordered OEM gasket kit, water pump seals, impeller and even a new clutch cover (where the waterpump sits).
At this point I cant cheap out. Just want to know it is fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
103887


Can take this out if I need to scratch the itch.
Better looking bike too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rich46
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top