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Discussion Starter #1

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The europa has potential. The Espirit screams wtf.

I like the 914. check the engine bay for rust THOROUGHLY. They love to rust in the nooks and crannies and the cancer spreads to structural things silently.

The Maserati screams i hate myself and i am into self loathing and BDSM.
 

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Nothing handles like a lotus. If you can keep it running, you'll never want to get rid of it. They are a complete joy to drive on a winding road.
 

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A) you won't fit in a Europa. It was a car designed for midgets and 120lb women
b) 914? -ick.
c) maser- you know what? No. Just. No.
D) ad sounds like the dude has a cosmetically bad esprit. If it isn't a scam it's a lure. Still this and the Europa are your best choices so far.
 

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+1 on Europa.
They are awesome. Another car on the bucket list is an elan.
I secretly kinda like how they did this Europa for the "different factor"
RE-Amemiya-Europa-31 - Speedhunters
RE-Amemiya-Europa-22.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Why are some Europas more money then Esprits?
 

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Why are some Europas more money then Esprits?
Couple of reasons, may have to do with variant types. The two that I know as being the top of the valuation pile are the Series 1 cars and the Twin cams. Series 1 cars are 1967 only and there are only 296 examples made making them the rarest of the Europas (almost all were European delivery). These cars are essentially race cars with street plates and don't have door handles, have fixed windows, aluminum dashboards, no interior panels, and a body that was glued to the chassis. The seats were fixed but you adjusted the pedals with tools and could shim the steering wheel. These mad 82hp, more than the standard Renault 16's standard hp of 52.

The other is the Twin Cam powered Europa and Europa Specials we got here in the states. Powered by a 105hp and then a 126hp Ford, and either a renault 4 speed or a five speed in the specials. These are the fastest Europas and also the most road friendly and most were offered in John Player livery of black with gold details. They made about 4,950 Twin cam powered cars between 1971 and 1975 vs 9,230 units of Renault powered between 1966 and 1971.

Rust in the frame is a huge issue with the Europa since it is a steel spine frame. The body is super easy to damage removing from the frame, but otherwise pulling the chassis out from underneath is no more difficult than ripping a vw beetle apart.

the CL ad you have posted is a 1969 car (they did not import Europa's officially until 1969 model year). That means it is a Renault 16 engine which is really the worst engine you want in one of these. There are no aftermarket parts and the mating between the engine and tranny is a lot of Lotus only pieces. These are perfect cars for an engine swap since there is no point in fixing the crappy Renault engine. I've seen them with toyota 4AGE engines and also Mazda Rotaries. The Ford ZeTech engine is the most popular swap because it shares a bolt housing pattern with the original twin cam housing so it bolts into the engine bay. I mean as a toy you could just leave the Renault engine in it and understand every once in a while it probably isn't going to start.

Why is the Europa an awesome car? it was developed for Lemans style GT racing - so think of it as a bargain GT40. It was realized early on that the 82 hp engine wasn't going to make it competitive in class so they refocused their efforts on club racing. With the right amount of hp they can easily have all the same "fun" factor as a street going 60's lemans racer. Why I absolutely love the car is that it pulled a .9G skid pad in 1967 - a feat even more impressive when you realize it was done on bias ply tires.
 

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By the way, if you are going to have a bad idea....you should make it a good one. Like taking this:

1987 PORSCHE 924S

and building a road going rally car like this:
317757d1227706876-any-rally-944s-924-rally.jpg

Porsche-924-Jean-Marc-Busolini.jpg

1979.gif

Porsche_924_GTS_-_2008_Rallye_Deutschland.jpg

but you actually have to rally cross it at least once.
 

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it's been done. though I wouldn't do it due to just the dumpsters full of money you would need to pull it off vs the bargain basement nature of just about every 924.



There was a 1970's porsche 912 shell here in ohio for $1500 that I half thought about buying and making a rally race car out of using a beetle engine, but then reality set in. If you are going to do a Rally 911 I feel like it needs to be aircooled and then you drive it to mexico and run it in the NORRA 1000:

911rally3.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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you didn't even open the CL ad did you? It has the factory hardtop. Your SO will love top down summer days and you can put the hardtop on the rest of the time. But whatever, for someone who likes motorcycles I don't understand why you hate convertibles.

That CTS-V has been on cars.com for months. It's a crack pipe price. Plus no point in having a wagon over a sedan unless you have kids or a family. Just get an 09 sedan, pay $20K for it, and be happy.
 

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Why ick on the 914? I learned to drive stick shift on one. Fun little cars if a bit rough around the edges. The 916 with the 911 6 cylinder was even more fun.
 

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the 916 is a rare car. As such they have started to appreciate.

the 914 is a go kart. that's about it's only endearing feature. But if you want to talk about a hated porsche it is probably the most hated one. It's useless as a daily in any place that isn't the south, and even as a toy it is a hard car to really enjoy because it is so rough. It will always feel too small and too underpowered.
 

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yeah but it is an easy enough one to build out of a 914 and a wrecked 911. However, You'll still be driving a 914 at the end of the day and wouldn't you rather have an Subaru STI engine at half the cost?
 
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