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Discussion Starter #1
I posted a topic a while back discussing the positives and negatives of doing a front end drum to disc break swap. Through the discussion it sounds like a well sorted drum break setup can perform as well as an older disc break setup. Also, in that discussion some folks were talking about different shoe composites. I'm wondering where to find a more aggressive shoe composite. It also sounded like someone was refitting shoes with different composite materials? Does any of that sound right? What do the racers do? I'm not looking to track my bike (70 cb450) but I am a BIG fan of stopping...

Thanks for the info!
 

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as usual, others will know more and have better info. but i don't think you want a race compound on the street. from what i understand, they take a lot more heat to become effective and then, once effective they are overly grippy at slow speeds/moderate braking. the vesrah street compounds are pretty good.

-tt
 

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Race compound shoes like Vintage Brake stuff would be a disaster on the street. If you ever did get them warmed up, then you'd probably lock the front end up at the first stop sign you come to.

Very very touchy at slow speeds when warm, not touchy enough when they are cold.
JohnnyB
 

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Correct, that's why they offer more than one compound. I'm not neccessarily advocating their pads, I've just found some good info on their site.

I have never seen anywhere other than their site a quantified discussion of how leverage ratios affect the performance/feel of bike disc brakes.
 

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I can't address disk brakes at all. I have no experience with performance disk pads.
JohnnyB

(As for shoes...I've run (do run) Vintage Brake, Vesrah, NOS crap, NOS OEM, and have shoes relined with stuff that comes from the UK that I like)


Edited by - jbranson on Nov 06 2007 12:03:00 PM
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for that website, it looks like a great place to start for brakes. I'm going to get a hold of them and see where it goes from there. I like the idea of keeping the drums if possible...

Thanks!
 

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After using Vintage Brake race compound on my T500 front, and then riding Mary's bike with a 305 brake and the compound that comes from Europe....I like her's better.
The VB compound has a lot of initial bite, ramps up quickly to max, then kind of peters out. At say about 70% pressure on the lever it just stops...doesn't do any more if you squeeze it harder.

The Euro compound shoes had less initial bite...but ramped up smooth and progressive...with more brake right up until you couldn't pull the lever any harder.

No fade on either compounds. Granted the 305 hub is more rigid and is probably going to provide more feel at the lever. The T500 hub is kind of "flexy". Besides a different amount of surface area (about 15% more with the T500) they are also very different in design, the 305 having long narrow shoes with the compound close to the pivot and cam, the T500 shoes are considerably wider with the compound much farther from the pivot and cam. My gut feeling is the T500 "auto actuats" much more dramatically when the shoe contacts the hub because the compound is farther from the pivot. The 350 with it's long narrow compound doesn't auto actuate as much until the contact patch progresses up the length of the compound some.

Also thing the 305 probably has a better leverage ratio. So...it's kind of apples and oranges, hard to compare different compounds on two different brakes....but I did really like the Euro stuff on the 305.

Not that anybody asked.

JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So I called and talked to Micheal at Vintage Brake. What a cool guy! We talked about bikes and brakes for a while and he took time to explain some of the stuff I didnt know about drum brakes and said he was going to include everything we talked about in writing with my new brake shoes. If your looking for brakes give Michael at vintagebrake.com a look up.
 

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the man (mike) is a wiz. super wealth of info. gracious guy to boot. while i had some very good performing brakes when i ran semi-metallic shoes, it came at the expense of drum wear. not so good. mike re-shoed my 250 taco racer a couple years back. it now stops as well as ANY gp bike in our club and is the model of drum brake perfection on the race track. i always have plenty in "reserve" even when braking to overtake. but my quickest laps are always yielded without using all available braking capacity. (with a more powerful/heavier (500+ cc ) bike this would not be the case).
street brakes have very different requirements. they don't need to be able to take repetative hammerings (i.e. be good while hot). they need to be GREAT when cold, cool, and warm. you're riding stupid if you get the brakes on your street bike hot. mike morse should have some really good material for your street bike. my taco brakes are a nightmare when used as they would be on the street. i crashed in the paddock at less than 10 mph while cruising around in the paddock before a practice. i was totally embarassed (nobody saw thank goodness... it must have looked as stupid as it was). and while that will never happen again, (i now "creep up" to using my front brake when i go uot on the track and primarily use my rear while "cruising" the paddock, especially after a month lay-over between events) i wouldn't want to have to contend with that (grabby) behavior on the street.
-parks
 

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mike is the man. i loved loved loved my vb setup. it was unreal. i really like the waterbuffalo now though with the stock shoes. talk about linear. and no grabbiness in the rain. really nice. and you can yank that thing to the bars and it'll launch you. what i do notice is its not as aggressive. its much more linear, so someone with bigger nuts could go by on the vb brakes, nail it, and probably make the corner. all of my best racing this year was done on the brakes. and i got the best compliments from people from passes i made on them under braking. i passed chris m on his 350 at summit and after the race he had commented that he though the throttle on my bike was pinned and that there was no way he thought i was going to make the corner. i hadnt even gotten warmed up yet. and passing mike o into t3 on lap 1in june was a highlite. (even though he still beat me)

jc
 
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