CB 750F

quote:
Geeto, I guess as long as someone else has slapped clipons, pinstripes and a solo seat on anything before it qualifies as "rocker" in your book.

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Milk, I am not sure what you mean. Please elaborate.

If you do a search on cb1100F.net you'll see I was once a poster there, as I do own a very nice 1979 cb750F supersport, done up in cafe style. The only reason I left there was that there were a lot of people with closed minds toward other types of motorcycles.

If you re-read any of my other posts closely you'll see I recommended making a very nice cafe bike out of the DOHC. Unfortunatly the original poster wants a bike with a Manx look. Have you ever seen a Manx norton - it is very difficult to get a DOHC cb750 to look like that because the technology had changed too much by the time that bike came out. The "rocker look" refers to the style of bike (cafe racers) built by "rockers" in england (and in the us) in the 1950's and 1960's, just adding pinstripes and clipon will not get you there for a lot of bikes.

There is very little you can do to a DOHC cb750F to make it come close to that kind of look short of a lot of custom fabrication. I know because I tried. The biggest hurdle is the frame - it is too damn long and anything longer than a stock tank increases an already lengthy reach to the bars.

The original poster stated he wanted to a bike in the manx style, which would be more like the cafe racers of the 50's and 60's, and that he wanted to do it with bolt on parts. I gave him as much advice as I could regarding the subject, and I encourage others to give theirs. The decision to keep the bike and attempt a more complicated build or to start out with something closer is enterly his, he doesn't have to take my advice.

That is a very nice gl1000 "cafe racer". It doesn't have that "manx" look, but it is still cool and a great example of inegnuity and creativity.


Edit: just looked at your bio and see you own an atlas. Do me a favor...park your cb750F next you your atlas and tell Stattz how you can make the F look like the norton using only bolt on parts. It will be more productive than a cheap shot at my expense.

Edited by - geeto67 on Oct 27 2005 6:36:24 PM

http://www.clubmanracing.com/ this link has norton replica tanks for wide and narrow frames .Still my thinking is a cross of old and new blended with what you like (Dunstahl Manx Norton)keep that visual in your mind as you mix and match pieces Im telling you will surprise your self with the unique bike you can come up with .If you noticed on my site the red frame bike I came up with was just that raw cafe look in my mind and just going for it .I think over all I achieved my goal.I will post the Black Framed '74 CB450 ,I have the same tank for this bike as I have for the red frame bike ,its nice and chunkie in the Manx Look,you could say.Again its not a replica of any thing its a cafe style bike period .I learned long ago you cant make a ferrari from a MGB, not with all the money and talent in the world .My idea is "HOW LITTLE MONEY I CAN SPEND" and still have that hand built look that the next guy morgaged his house to build and steal the "THUNDER".

The problem with old bikes is you really need to go thru them ,dismantle them and put them back together so from a safety and "RELIABILTY"(not cool broken down on side of rode even though with a smart looking bike youd get more offers to help you out)

And that can get expensive if you dont have the tools or ability to do that because to pay a shop per hour to build a bike ....well its not fun unless you have money in which case just go find a dunstahl manx end of story.

Ill post Sunday pictures of the CB450 In its new painted Black frame and newly detailed engine remounted (has 5700 miles original)back in the frame and front end and the tank I have thats like the red frame bike .

Look at it this way its already gone thru,all brackets shaved off of frame already and resprayed,Engine clean balsted and detailed,rewired(original wiring inspected and gone thru every connection for chaffing and clean tight connections, you have time to pick accent color,tire brands wheels if you want to upgrade or you can do that when the bike is at your home, and choose tank and seat,handle bars ,fenders even though I like fabricating my own seats and tail pieces (steel is better then glass creaking and cracking over time great, on a few lap racebike but a street bike I plan to spend some hours on) because they are unique signature pieces.

Or you can take it home (I can deliver it to you)running and you tinker with as much of the bolt on stuff you want if you dont trust taking the trees apart to put clips on ,I will do that and you can do the less mecahnical bolt on stuff (its just a cafe style bike is a lot of making things fit and can get fustrating to someone that thinks they will just buy the pieces and bolt them on, every item needs some sort of tweeking to make it fit (you cannt be german about it ,its more mechanical then engineered perfection) its what makes them cool to me) .for under three grand(a completed bike with my tank and seat tail piece(all steel) looking good is not a bad deal.I can do as much or as little at this stage!what ever options we can talk .

The 81 is to modern looking mag wheels ,engine is a stressed member to the frame not the bike for the look your aiming for you need wire wheels .and that strait edged looking frame makes a good modern/retro cafe pre-modern super bike but doesnt have the full on vintage look.

quote:
http://www.clubmanracing.com/ this link has norton replica tanks for wide and narrow frames .

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Those are for slim line and wideline featherbed frames. The wideline featherbed is probably just a little narrower than a commando. They also have commando tanks there but the commando is still way narrower then a SOHC or DOHC honda.

quote:
Ill post Sunday pictures of the CB450 In its new painted Black frame and newly detailed engine remounted (has 5700 miles original)back in the frame and front end and the tank I have thats like the red frame bike .

Look at it this way its already gone thru,all brackets shaved off of frame already and resprayed,Engine clean balsted and detailed,rewired(original wiring inspected and gone thru every connection for chaffing and clean tight connections, you have time to pick accent color,tire brands wheels if you want to upgrade or you can do that when the bike is at your home, and choose tank and seat,handle bars ,fenders even though I like fabricating my own seats and tail pieces (steel is better then glass creaking and cracking over time great, on a few lap racebike but a street bike I plan to spend some hours on) because they are unique signature pieces.

Or you can take it home (I can deliver it to you)running and you tinker with as much of the bolt on stuff you want if you dont trust taking the trees apart to put clips on ,I will do that and you can do the less mecahnical bolt on stuff (its just a cafe style bike is a lot of making things fit and can get fustrating to someone that thinks they will just buy the pieces and bolt them on, every item needs some sort of tweeking to make it fit (you cannt be german about it ,its more mechanical then engineered perfection) its what makes them cool to me) .for under three grand(a completed bike with my tank and seat tail piece(all steel) looking good is not a bad deal.I can do as much or as little at this stage!what ever options we can talk .

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The cb450 is a really nice bike and surprisingly quick. What is nice about them is very litte changed year to year so you may be able to fit the 1969 chrome tanks (one of the best looking tanks next to the 67-68 cb450 black bomber, bmw r75/5 chrome tank, and the cb77 superhawk). Rosko has a really sweet stock 71 cb450 with the 1969 pieces, if he put a fiberglass tail and a set of clip-ons that bike would look the cats arse (he is so going to hate that I outed him on the net, but you hafta admit the bike looks sweet):
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dean_morarity/detail?.dir=mail&.dnm=7677.jpg&.src=ph

quote:The 81 is to modern looking mag wheels ,engine is a stressed member to the frame not the bike for the look your aiming for you need wire wheels .and that strait edged looking frame makes a good modern/retro cafe pre-modern super bike but doesnt have the full on vintage look.

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The 1981 Cb750F does not use the engine as a stressed member. In fact it is one of the last "sport" bikes produced with a traditional tubular cradle style frame. However the bike is about the same size as a first year goldwing (gl1000, like the one pictured in Milk's post) and only a little bit smaller than a CBX (mostly due to the cbx's massive six - which is a stressed member engine). It is possible to make a really cool bike out of it, and the more that I look at it the more it seems likely you could add a fiberglass manx style seat to it, but you would have bob the rear frame section just aft of the shocks and add crossbraces and reinfocement. If built today, the CBF would be more of a sport tourer than a dedicated sport bike because of it's girth, but back in the early eightes it was one of the first true bikes built solely for sport by the japanese (along with the Z1R and GS1000R). Considering the bike is now over 20 years old I think it has it's own charms, but I don't think the 80's will have the same retro nostalgia that the 50's and the 60's have. Still it would be nice to see someone riding one in a cutoff vest, plaid pants, mohawk, and chain a-la early 80's punk rock style.



Edited by - geeto67 on Oct 28 2005 09:44:06 AM

quote:
Thanks for all the posts, it really is amazing how much people are willing to help an unknown beginner. Thanks!

I'll check out the CB450 pics on Sunday. I liked the red framed CB360 - a very cool look. I really had something a bit bigger in mind than the CB450: I'm a 6'5", 210lb animal who'd like to crack the ton once in a while. However, Lil Bull sounds as though he's taken all the hard work out of cleaning up an old bike. Talking of which, why does one shave off brackets? Aren't they going to be needed?

Stattz

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What made the cb450 so remarkable is that it was one of the first "bigger bore" motorcycles in the 60's from honda that could crack the ton with an average american on it (not some spindly japanese guy weighing 98lbs soaking wet). Roland Brown has a nice write up on the cb450 in his book the history of fast motorcycles. That is a great book (and in the bargain setion of barnes and noble right now) if you are looking at cafe racer canidates as it shows a lot of different bikes, some of which could still be had for cheap. The only jap bike faster at the time was the t500 cobra which came out in 1967 also. In 1969 honda released the cb750, kawasaki released the h1 500, and all the britbike companies coughed their first death rattle. Removign the brackets is the first step to building a race bike or a good cafe bike. since really you need custom brackets to mount the seat, rearsets, and bigger tank, the stock ones are not necessary. You cannot put the bike back to stock after you cut the brackets but japanese bikes are pretty disposable, if you need another frame later on I can tell you a salvage yard in louisiana that has them stockpiled like cordword.

I'll snap some pics of my supersport when it comes in. I was supposed to pick it up this sunday but that doesn't look like it will happen. maybe during the week, if you are still interested.

In the mean time continue to look at other bikes for inspiration. Personally, the more time I spend with my Suzuki T500 Titan the more I like it as a beginer cafe bike. Early ones are about as quick as a triumph bonneville. Because they are two stroke they vibrate like a brit, they are stone simple to work on, they are approximatley the same size and shape as a norton commando. They were raced competivley throughout the 60's and 70's, and there are plenty of fiberglass seat and tank options for them and a few aluminum. They are also legal in a lot of vintage racing classes. Plus you can pick up nice examples for around $1000 and decent runners needing cosmetics for less.

Geeto67 the 81 is a SOHC 400 it has the engine as a stress member its not a 750. Sunday Ill have a link up to my site with the 81 engine detail frame Im blasting on monday .Also post the CB450 .

AS for the cb450 it will be a very stripped down bike so it has the nuts and bolts look of the 1st LiL Bull .I feel this bike is far better in looks then the stock bike .When I post the pics notice I removed all the bulky trim in the fork, the garters /headlight support/reflecter assembly bracketry. Makes that mean front end stand out like a racer .also the massive air box is removed for custum air filters.
Battery will be mounted in a fabricated aluminum box and the neccessary electrical components will be relocated to a better looking package.

Shaving is cutting off brackets and grinding them flush with frame there are lots of original brackets for seat hinges and locks and locks for helmet and all this pedestrian pieces like side covers that detract from the look of the frame its like take a orange, the fruit, and start adding any thing to its out side shape it starts right away to intrude on the original design. Same thing happens with bike frames they start out with a cool straight stripped down frame, then they add nummerous sundry brackets for everything on to it.

For the cafe look you need to bring the bike frame, to the original bike thats under all that generic, sell to the masses, add-ons they stick on the good looking frame, till you have the bike as it was intended to be, before the sales and marketing group add there wish list to the design.Its the whole reason the sences reel when you look at a caferacer its pared down to the essentials...skin tight lean and mean!!!

A picture says a thousand words so Ill post the bike with the tank i like,and with the stock tank and with two seat looks im working on.Itll never see the stock tank again but just to show the dif.

By the way the frame is "chassis black and the engine is detailed the two together so sweet looks like a zillion buck bike!And that front end so MEAN! Look at that nice cb450 Geeto67 posted ..Then look at my bike its mean kick-ass brother !!!And if I m riding and if I see a Dunstahl Manx This bike will hold its head high In the Aggressive looks department, right with it .

you probably want to ask them over here:

http://xs650forum.proboards18.com/

http://p214.ezboard.com/fslickschoppersfrm15

I've never had the fortune to own an xs650. I had a friend with one once but it was a later one and built as more of a crusier. From what I remember about it it has a 360 degree crank so it even sounds like a bonneville but it is heavier. Japanese bikes aren't usually know for bad electrics (early kawasaki h1's being the exception) but if i recall there was always some buzz about the timing chain.


There are a lot of jap bikes out there that share parts with british and other euro machines. I used to have an interchangibility list but I don't know where it went. I can tell you that the w-650 kawasakis are literally japanese versions of BSA's (I forget which model) and parts will interchange. I don't think this is a feature of the newer w650. Although the t500 copied heavily from norton, ducati 750 and 900ss tanks will bolt right on (I think you have to drill a hole for the rear mount). Later vincent lightweights are actually NSU's.