[FR]

Question; In the experiance of this here forum, which sanctioning body (racing that is) would be the best one to choose for a CB450. The variables I'm considering are Tech Inspection (how serious are they), Race Venue (Frontierland, is it worthy?), and competition for whatever class this bike would fit in (who/what would I be racing against? more CB450s?)

FR

 

[n/a]

Check out the following link for most of your questions. Yes, the rulebook is outdated a bit but most of it is still intact. And YES tech is VERY important as your machine should be SAFE for you and the other racers.

http://race-uscra.com/rulebook.html



Champ

 

[UngaWunga]

http://race-uscra.com/grandprix.html

With the stock torsion valve springs and a front drum brake, its legal for 500GP. If you want to run a disk or convert to coil valve springs, you'd be bumped up to Heavyweight supervintage

You'd be better off in 500GP...

 

[FR]

Aaight.

I'm there with the stock torsion bars and drum brake. I've actually never seen one o'those torsion bar valve spring heads. I got a bro that's donating his bike to my cause, and I'm considering racing that vs my CB125S, which is really not too exiting.

Champ, I share your (and everyone else's) concern about safety. Part of my concern with Tech Inspection has to do with that, and I guess with interpretation of rules. Not that I'm planning on breaking any.

What's Frontierland like? I've heard it's access roads for NHIS, but how long is it? How often does it get used? Is there room to pass?

FR

 

[joe c]

todd was eeking about 60hp out of his. but it ate valve trane parts. there are still quite a few fast 450's out there. buff has 1 or 2. id guess mwsv/p2. (is that what theyre calling it now??) wera would probably be v2, and 500gp. the wera mid atlantic grids are kinda anemic, and i dont know whos riding what in v2.

jc

 

[FR]

Holy Crap!
waitaminute, did you say 60 hp?
NFW, which is short for I find that very hard to believe!
I'm guessing you'd have to pour in more money than it's worth to pull 60 brake (freakin) horse power out of that engine. But what do I know, I've been sliding around on an XT500 that makes 40 HP on a good day.

 

[aaron]

Right from Todds mouth at Daytona last year. The one he pulled out for Buff had 63. Its a great bike you can run in 500gp with several other classes you can bump to.

Aaron

 

[joe c]

just buy some good tools you like, because you'll be using them, alot! mike and spin had a 450 motor at todds shop for a sidecar motor. but then the crash and he never got it done. that would have been pretty cool to see out there.

there ya go...60+ at the wheel.

jc

 

[jbranson]

FR...Yes Todd spent a fortune and many years of research, and huge amounts of testing and development to get that kind of HP...but he does get it.

I've run Frontier twice.... I love it, even more than the main track. It's short...about a mile, tons of room to pass on the main straight, numerous braking pass areas. It's a riders track, tight, technical and you'll use your brakes like never before.
JohnnyB

 

[paced_haste]

i agree with johnnyB about frontier land...kinda. he's got a hardon for it 'cause he did well there this year. it's not wide enough for me...parts of it are about half as wide as a racetrack should be. i tested the gravel traction, right aaron? it wasn't so good. it's definitely worth it though FR, especially if you're on a new bike, good for testing brakes, suspension, and the motor.

what's all this about 60hp honda 450s? they're not legal in USCRA 500gp are they? did wera just allow them to make 60hp so they can keep up with manx's and G50s? doing KTM research this summer i found out you can get an OEM hopped up 450 that they're claiming 73hp out of. probly have to change the internals every 40 miles, but i bet a 70hp single that weighs 250lbs would be pretty fun.


Z

 

[FR]

Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing the '05 Schedule. With any luck I'll have this project ready...but with more like stock hp, whatever that was..Maybe a cam.

If anyone's interested, the Middletown N.Y. indoor shorttrack series runs every Saturday starting the 8th of Jan. through Feb. 5th. I think it's a night event.

 

[FR]

FR...Yes Todd spent a fortune and many years of research, and huge amounts of testing and development to get that kind of HP...but he does get it.

Todd who? Henning??

Nevermind, I just answered that question with a little surfing. I guess he's the man with a plan for CBs.

Edited by - FR on Dec 04 2004 2:14:17 PM

 

[UngaWunga]

quote:
FR...Yes Todd spent a fortune and many years of research, and huge amounts of testing and development to get that kind of HP...but he does get it.

Yup, Mr. Henning. But he doesn't race anymore, and you're not allowed to run one of his engines in 500GP. Seriously, its the best class for that bike, plus you can bump up to open gp, where you'll still stand a good chance of doing well. Let me know what you're doing to yuor bike when you get it as I have a 450 as well. Been planning on putting it on the street, but who knows.

You can get a Dyna S ignition from a GL1000 to fit on them if you want to get rid of the points. I just ordered a set and will be performing this mod over xmass. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[FR]

Right on. I'm gonna pick up the bike in that timeframe. I'll do a compression check first, if I don't have to get into the internals, I won't.
Points and condenser do suck, I messed with 'em for a couple seasons, missed a couple starts, before I finally went fully electronic.
I know it'll need new carbs, 'cause some crack ho stole the originals right off it while my brother was at work.

FR

 

[red]

quote:

quote:
FR...Yes Todd spent a fortune and many years of research, and huge amounts of testing and development to get that kind of HP...but he does get it.

Yup, Mr. Henning. But he doesn't race anymore, and you're not allowed to run one of his engines in 500GP. Seriously, its the best class for that bike, plus you can bump up to open gp, where you'll still stand a good chance of doing well. Let me know what you're doing to yuor bike when you get it as I have a 450 as well. Been planning on putting it on the street, but who knows.

You can get a Dyna S ignition from a GL1000 to fit on them if you want to get rid of the points. I just ordered a set and will be performing this mod over xmass. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[magnetoczar]

I ran a a CB500 with a CB450 head on it for several years in a sidecar and it made enough to get us around the track and we most always bagged a 1st or a 2nd. I used to get beat frequently by Spinney's CB450, with which at first we were pretty even, but then he started to run away from me. I only learned from a very good source last year that he was in fact running one of Todd's engines in that car, I mean he used to disappear on the straights. I don't mind a little fudging to keep up with everybody else's fudging, but that was gross over-the-top cheating.

However, my point isn't about cheating, we still had fun, but rather that the CB450/500 is a very good engine that will really run well and reliably with just a bit of tweaking. I would simply make a good set of exhausts to begin with, and get rid of those CV carbs in favor of 30-32mm Mikunis, that engine needs more gas/air volume. The only place I ever had an oil leakage issue was when the clutch rod seal blew out once. Take a punch and peen the edges of the aluminum housing around that seal so that it can't come out. That's a 180 crank, so except for blowby, there really aren't crank pressure issues. Still, not a bad idea to drill a breather into the dipstick holder and attach a hose and PCV valve to it and exit it into a catch can. Trim the frame, reweld any seam that looks suspect, spend your money on brakes and suspension to start out with. Tim Courts used to go out on that boat anchor of a 500 BMW and run at the front with it against bikes with much more hp because, simply, he knew how to ride. Big HP is a sad substitute for skill, and listen, to acquire skill is what racing is all about. The trophies come simply as proof that you've gotten better. I used to race a 500 Triumph in the gp500 class, and at the time it consisted of Todd, for one, and some G50's which pretty much dominated the podium. I only won one race, but I did really learn how to ride well through my efforts to catch the front runners, and really that was what I was after. When I kicked up to gp750 on a big Triumph, I had better results because now I was a good match with winning hp.

Have fun, stretch the envelope slowly, ride your own race.

regards,
Dgy

 

[kenessex]

I need to agree with everything Dgy just said. HP alone will not win you races. I have raced lots of underpowered stuff. It teaches you some of the most fundamentel aspects of racing that will really be helpful if you evr get some real HP. From my days of running 350s and singles is that any momentum lost in the turns will not be seen again until the next straight and even then it will be a long time coming. I learned to be late on the brakes and keep up my cornering speed. Low HP bikes are really fun.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[paced_haste]

What they both said.

Z

 

[FR]

DGY, I'm hip. It took me quite a while to gain any appreciable skills racing flattrack. Longer still to learn how to win...

The CB450 project got put on the back burner this winter, my racing fund got depleted. But I'm thinking about getting back into it. I'd reeaally like to catch the late season road racing scene.

Last year I just raced more flattrack 'cause it was easy, just load up the bike and race. If I can get my racing fund back up, I'll finish the CB450.

FR

 

[joe c]

doug, they never got that motor built. it was at todds shop when he had his accident. and from what mikes told me, the chassis had some serious handling issues for some reason. as far as i know, that motor was supposed to be pretty stock. mike knows better than i do though. mike was the one who was supposed to be taking care of getting that motor built since spin did the rig. i mean, its been a long time, but thats what i remember. (damn the thc!)

mike?

jc