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Discussion Starter #1
I've been looking for an XS1 front drum brake, for the XS650 old school cafe racer I'm building, without much success. After doing a little research, I'm thinking a CB77 brake might be a good choice too. Anybody have any thoughts/experience how the 2 compare in stopping power?
 

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The CB77 and the CB450 are for all intents and purposes the same brake. The 450 has a slightly more robust hub, but the shoes are interchangeable.

I'd give the 650 unit the edge in stopping power with the wider shoes and I like the 17mm axle.

First thing you want to consider is the axle size. 15mm on the CB77/450... 17mm for the yamaha. If you are using Yamaha forks with 17mm axle holes...you'll of course want a 17mm axle. Which means on the Honda you'd have to use different bearings.

The CB77/450 brake uses a standard 6302 metric bearing (15mm ID x 42mm OD). You'd have to find a bearing with a 17mm ID and 42mm OD. I don't think that's a standard bearing size...however I'm sure that it's available somewhere. Don't be scared off the swap until you know that it's not going to be possible to swap the bearings. You'll probably be getting new bearings for whatever brake you decide to use, so getting the bearing to make the swap could be as easy as a quick internet search.

I'd keep looking for a Yamaha brake for a while. They are out there somewhere.
JohnnyB
 

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I think the 17mm id bearing is standard on some hondas. It might be a 6305??? I don't really know for sure. I would go with the CB77 front wheel cause I am developing a burning hatred for 19" wheels. I just don't like them and I like the selection of 18" tires better. The other thing is that you can get an 18" dirtbike wheel off of E-bay cheap and lace up a WM-3 alloy rim to the CB77 hub using the original spokes. It is a really cheap way to get alloy rims on your bike. I think I used the rear wheels off of a XL350 and RM125 on my racebike. I paid more for shipping than I did for the parts.

Of course that is just my opinion and I might be wrong.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for all the great responses!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Actually, I had, already, ran across the Vintage Brake page. Until then, I really hadn't thought about the CB450/CB72/CB77 brake. From reading that page, the Honda brake has longer shoes and actually more area than the Yamaha. Of course, what specs suggest, and the way things actually work in practice, are not always the same, hence my question. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> However, it seems like the general consensus is that it's very comparable in performance and is certainly more plentiful. I was aware of the difference in axle sizes, but as suggested here, it probably exists, even if I have to do a little research to find it. Of course the easist way to have good brakes would be to stick with dual disks and be done with it. Oh....if I were only that smart. Which, of course, I'm not. What I want to end up with is something that would have looked totally at home sitting in front of The Ace Cafe in, say, the early 60's. Probably no disk brakes to be seen there. I know.....no Yamaha's either, but you get the idea. Once again, thanks for the replys.
Mike Graham.
 

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Mike
I've got a Yamaha drum brake wheel that might be what your looking for. I'll get a picture to you soon.
bfd
 

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Discussion Starter #8
JohnnyB,
Wow, those are very cool, indeed! What kind of linings do the shoes have?
Mike Graham
 

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Mike,
The linings come in several varities...

1. Old greasy, worn OEM
2. Cheapo new no name
3. Vesrah aftermarket (fine for the street...better than OEM for racing)
4. Race compound when I have them...which I won't for a couple of months.
5. Race compound after you send them to vintage brake and pay an arm and leg.

JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #11
quote:
Mike,
The linings come in several varities...

1. Old greasy, worn OEM
2. Cheapo new no name
3. Vesrah aftermarket (fine for the street...better than OEM for racing)
4. Race compound when I have them...which I won't for a couple of months.
5. Race compound after you send them to vintage brake and pay an arm and leg.

JohnnyB
Ok, let me rephrase that question. What linings are on the one for $200.00?
 

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Mike, the Vesrah shoes.
I arc them to match the drum which makes for better stopping power and very little sponge in the lever.

Decent shoes...I done some for some guys that are racing with them with no complaints. I wouldn't recommend them for a hot 350 racing in a GP class. But they are good for FCB or the street.

Actually for the street you don't want race compound anyway...they don't stop particularly well unless they are heated up good.
JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #13
JohnnyB,
This is going to be street bike only. A question about arcing the shoes, Is it better to do this after the hub is laced to the wheel and spokes are all adjusted, or does that not matter?
Mike Graham.
 

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I've mic'd hub ID's before and after lacing....I've never seen a difference. I guess it's possible on some hubs and some lacings...like radial lacing. If you really study cross four lacing you can see that not a whole lot of force actually pulls outward on the hub flange...opposing spokes pull against sections of flange.

I suppose there may be weaker hubs out there, but the 305/450 hubs certainly don't seem suceptable to going out of round.

I don't think I've ever mic'd an OEM hub (that didn't have a rusted liner) that mic'd more than .005" out of round. Almost all of them are around .002-.004" out. I've seen bearings cause that much run out.

In my opinion there would have to be something fairly screwed up with hub that was pulled out of round by the spokes...first of all the forces are evenly applied...assuming it was spoked in a reasonable manner. And...say for instance the theory was that the spoke tension increased the ID of the hub....it would have to be...say .005" to make any difference (assuming it was even all around)... ok... x pie..that's about .016" around the circumference of the hub. Myself..I find it hard to believe that spokes are going to stretch the flange .016".

I would say that the primary reason this is a concern is improperly spokes wheels...or wheels with a bent rim where someone is trying to pull the rim straight with the spokes...that would apply a very uneven force that could pull the hub out of round.

The short answer is NO...I don't believe it's an issue, I've done them both ways and never noticed a difference. Perhaps on a very precision, single sided 4 leading shoe hub it might be more of a concern. But at the level of equipment we are using...no.
JohnnyB
 
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