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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not sure if these guys have been mentioned on here, but I noticed they have some kinda cool looking motorcycles for stupid cheap prices, considering they are brand new.
I'd like to hear your opinions about these on whether or not these would be good bikes, or just a pretty turd.
Of course, they have some little choppers and wannabe café racers, but they have a couple of decent looking standards, including one called the Misfit that has modern looking forks and brakes, and some nice paint schemes.
From their website, they look good enough that I'd want to test ride them.
Cleveland CycleWerks - Cleveland CycleWerks Classic Models

Perhaps a direction to send newbies who want a vintage looking bike for not much coin? I'd say it's a good alternative to the barn find cb350 that's missing most of the important parts.... provided that the bikes are somewhat dependable?
 

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Those ARE nice looking bikes, and 250's now, not the 125's they sold in the past.

They may be low prices compared to other new bikes, but for that same money or less one could buy a very good used Honda or other bike from the 70's.

There was an interesting article in a recent Motorcyclist issue about motoracism. I think I am probably guilty of that with Chinese and Indian (country not brand) motorcycles. But, look at Hyundai--they and other Korean cars used to be thought of as absolute crap, but now they are very well regarded.

All depends on dealer network and parts and service availability.

I give full disclosure, and I am a Guzzi guy. Heck, it looks like CCW has more dealers in the USA than Guzzi..........
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I also am a Guzzi guy, and I LOVE my 2004 breva 750 that I bought with 3k miles for 3 grand last year, and have put another 15k miles on. It's been my favorite motorcycle so far, and one of the most expensive ones I've had.
But it was 11 years old, and if I want a new v7 (which I do), it's gonna cost me a minimum of $7500 for last year's model still on the showroom floor.
I know 100% that any Guzzi is better than these cheapo bikes, as I've seen bikes identical to mine with 150k miles on them. But there is room in my stable for a cheap ass Chinese bike that wasn't expensive.
I really like the street legal dirtbikes they have, the "Hooligun". Since I don't need a 100k mile dirtbike, that would be a great way to get in the woods with a bike for cheap.
 

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Hyundai imho is a bit of a unique company compared to most of the Chinese based small motor factories, Hyundai has accumulated a lot of expertise and financial backing from their heavy equipment divisions, they build some serious big stuff!



Some of the factories building motorcycles and motor parts in central China would literally fit inside some of the ships that Hyundai builds. As developing nations go, South Korea has a very different history of foreign investment, war reparations, technical development support, etc. The biggest thing China has going for it in recent years is lax pollution control regulations and a vast controlling interest in very raw materials.

I'm not seeing South Korea goods as implying any credibility or relevance to mainland China products.
You know, they Are on opposite sides of a a very significant DMZ that has been in place since 1953 :rolleyes:
 

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I think the misfit uses a rebel 250 engine copy. I don't remember as our last HFL test was in 2012 right before we sold the company.

https://rideapart.com/articles/the-3200-solution-to-the-modern-motorcycle

moto-racisim is a real thing and it sucks, but that doesn't mean you should close your eyes to what the bike actually is. Royal Enfield has an engine they developed on their own to meet their market expectations and are funded by india's largest transportation manufacturer. bikes like the misfit, the sym wolf, etc...they are bikes built to a price point leveraging china's non-existent intellectual property laws to build something that meets the market place expectations for reliability but may always feel cheap. I'm not saying don't buy one, just have a look and make sure you can live with the quality of the thing for what you pay for it. For what is is worth I had a friend that sold the CCW heist in NY and I always thought they were crap quality and had little regard for those who bought them. But they worked and those guys were happy with their out of the box rigid chopper so who really cares.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I always figured that a honda rebel could have been a pretty good bike with a better suspension and riding position, so I'm thinking a Misfit is probably not so bad as long as you don't expect exceptional quality out of the thing.
Maybe they could even be upgraded like many people do with modern thruxton and Enfields to get rid of shitty gauges and whatnot.
In the end, wouldn't expect to replace either of my road going bikes with a ccw bike, but I think they look nice, and the dirtbikes might very well fill the position of an occasional off-road adventure for me, without replacing my Jeep.
 

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It looks like the Misfit is running some variation of a 250 OHC single. It is hard to tell whether it is a variation of the Honda 125/185/200 single or the Yamaha aircooled single engine. I think the other possibilities use a pushrod single based on the Honda CG125 motor.
 

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Disposable economics

Kawaki lol -> if you are paying 30$ a piece for them when you import by the container load, some would consider reliability and parts replacement to be a non-issue.



myself, I'm a sucker for quality
 

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sounds so english... like when the english complained about the lack of "quality" on jap bikes, then the "shitty" jap bikes drove them out of business and are still on the road... the way engines are built now has little to do with any old school crafts philosophy, it's all automated and computer inspected and they run the same machines we do, gotta wake up guys, just because we were on top doesn't mean we deserve to be
 

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sounds so english... like when the english complained about the lack of "quality" on jap bikes, then the "shitty" jap bikes drove them out of business and are still on the road... the way engines are built now has little to do with any old school crafts philosophy, it's all automated and computer inspected and they run the same machines we do, gotta wake up guys, just because we were on top doesn't mean we deserve to be
To be a little fair to the english - when they talk about "quality" they are talking about fit and finish not necessarily engineering quality. And when it came to the japanese they wouldn't be wrong, 70's jap bikes have awful chrome, paint with just ok quality, cheap vinyl seats, as compared with the stainless steel, hand painted carriage lacquers, and heavy duty vinyl and leather the brits used. What the japanese did was put their money into engineering and quality control instead of better paint and chrome and it paid off. What sets these new chinese bikes apart from the japanese 40 years ago is they don't put the money into engineering, they just use existing bolt for bolt designs. BTW this is not a new thing - the germans during WWI copied the LeRhone 9J engine for use in their planes botl for bolt. It wasn't uncommon to scavenge parts of crashed planes using the leRhone to keep the Oberursel running and vice versa.

The question that nobody seems to be able to answer right now is do they chinese put the money into quality control. They need to sell more bikes for it to be come more discussed.
 

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sounds so english... like when the english complained about the lack of "quality" on jap bikes, then the "shitty" jap bikes drove them out of business and are still on the road... the way engines are built now has little to do with any old school crafts philosophy, it's all automated and computer inspected and they run the same machines we do, gotta wake up guys, just because we were on top doesn't mean we deserve to be
;) who's "we", I'm about as English as a Canadian can be.

The way engines are built has everything to do with metallurgy and quality control of the materials and processes used in their construction. I was for many years heavily involved in the sales and service of research grade microscope equipment as utilized in destructive and non-destructive testing by companies like GM, Alcan, Boeing and the people who build Candu nuclear power plants to name just a very few, some of those microscopes like the ones at GM in Oshawa were 20 feet long and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I have a slightly bias opinion and concept of quality engines vs. those that can be had for a few dollars in bulk quantities. Apologies for my scepticism, but when major companies like American Optical started importing 'price based product' from China, I seen a lot of sh*t break and had to fix a lot of mistakes on sh*t product. Their casting and welding processes and quality control was always historically lacking and I'm not seeing a great deal of change in that, are you? Not saying a world power like China can't build world class products, what I am saying is; that's not the product lines and business model they are catering to.

With all possible respect for China, they make world class fireworks, probably because the invented gun powder and paper, they make wonderful silk products. I personally use a lot of chop-sticks and eat a great deal of Chinese style food.
K, now I'm running out of things; lets look here:
http://listdose.com/top-10-things-china-is-famous-for/ lol well that wasn't much help.
 

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Nope, all the CCW bikes are singles.
you are right, forgot the rebels are twins.

This says they are Lifan OHV singles which would make them CG engine family based.
2012 Cleveland CycleWerks tha Misfit Review - Motorcycle USA

I'm an idiot, our own HFL review reported they are CG based:
The unique 250cc engine is based on Honda CG architecture, but modified to CCW’s specs with a unique head design and counter balancer. The cam is allegedly profiled for “performance,” a word you use loosely when 14bhp is being discussed. In modified guise, the power band is wide, with a decent rush at the top end.
https://rideapart.com/articles/the-3200-solution-to-the-modern-motorcycle
 

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No problem, Lifan makes a kazillion twin cylinder motorcycle engines, you can get them for less than 100 bucks per unit if you order them by the container load :| how many would you like.



Although I do believe this Lifan motor is manufactured in Thailand and it will likely fail current California emission standards if it's fitted with carburetors, but hey, :rolleyes: the price is right.
 

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what does hfl mean?

google cleveland cyclewerks issues and you get a fairly bad impression. depends how many they sell i guess.
 

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I've had the unfortunate experience of working on three.

All were almost brand new and had some pretty bad issues. Look, it was a few years ago now, but I do not touch chinese stuff. Not because they can't get better, but you try explaining to the guy who bought the thing for a grand that he needs a whole new front end because the races are cracked in the neck, the bushings in the forks are committing suicide and taking everything around them, and what that cost would be. It doesn't make sense. Still buy, then dispose.

The only thing I've ever opted to do was sourced a local lifan motor for a monkey bike just to go from 50cc to 150cc in 2 hours. plus it was a pit bike, so if it blew, whatever. Put the 50 back in.

The first CCW I had the pleaser of seeing was worked on by my good friend who was right next to me. The carb was insanely flawed. The accelerator pump was on at idle and turns off when you open the throttle. It was brand new.

Just saying.
 

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Sigh.....I REALLY want to like these bikes, especially with the 500cc Misfit on the horizon, but they need to get their quality act together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Bob Dog, that's the kind of thing I was looking for. Maybe they've improved since then, but a bad first impression is a hard thing to overcome.
I never planned on buying one of these, because I already have a pretty good small bike in my old honda.
But I have a couple of friends who wanted bikes to put their first few miles on, maybe even a bike to keep for a couple of seasons and then pass on to some other newb.
This reputation makes it hard to believe that one of these bikes would make it through a couple of seasons, much less being something that could be sold on to another learner with a clear conscience.
But knowing this, most people don't post reviews online or say anything about service or quality of a company unless they've had a bad experience. So although the bad reviews outweigh the good, there still may be plenty of people who have had good results with these cheap bikes.
I had a Chinese scooter that was 150cc, and that thing was awesome. (After I tore it all the way down to the crank and put loctite on every single bolt, re-sealed everything with RTV, replaced every wiring connector with decent quality stuff, and welded up a broken header) and when I sold it, the chick that bought it hauled her husky ass around on that thing another 5 years before I moved to a different town. But my point is that the most of the Chinese parts on this thing were just fine, but the thing didn't quit falling apart every time someone rode it until somebody who gave a f*ck spent some time correcting faults it had upon original assembly.
I'm inclined to believe that this one aspect of it could mean the difference between a good, cheap starter bike and $3k wasted on an unreliable piece of crap that gives an entire company a bad name.

Often these things are shipped in various stages of disassembly, so some of the characteristic flaws could likely be traced back to an American dealer with employees who suck at their jobs, and then we blame the Chinese for building shitty bikes, lol.
These things have the same 2 year, unlimited mileage warranty as many better quality bikes today have, and that's enough to scare me away from wanting to become a dealer for a product that already has a bad reputation for screwing up early in the game.
 
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