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Discussion Starter #1
Would You Want To See A Dual Clutch Transmission In A Sportbike?

Rumors are starting to bubble up that Honda is looking to put their dual clutch transmission in an upcoming refresh to their CBR sportbike range.
Personally, while I understand that this is a smart move from a marketing and customer base perspective...I hate the idea. But then again I hate the idea that manual trans cars are becoming a rarity. I feel like some things require an inherent skill, and shifting is just one of those things. I also believe personally the world doesn't need more motorcyclists, just more motorcycle aware car drivers, because let's face it riding in a pack of idiot strangers on bikes is way scarier than being in normal traffic on the freeway.

Call me an elitist fuck if you will but when you take away the skill building to make someone good at something with little effort - where is the fun of that activity? I don't think every tom dick an harry should be able to buy bike gear control skills like rossi.


anyway, talk amongst yourselves.
 

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I see your point and I tend to agree. I do see a benefit for the novice rider. One less thing to concentrate on while learning to operate a motorcycle. I have yet to ride a DCT bike but I spent a day riding with a small group and one of them was on a Honda NC700X and he was quick on it (and an experienced rider). I'm just spit-balling as I haven't really paid much attention to that technology.


P.S.You are an elitist fuck.
 

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ARE all the NC700x's DCT's? I suspect not and I don't recall if the one I saw had a clutch lever or shifter.
 

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What about electric bikes. They only have one gear correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ARE all the NC700x's DCT's? I suspect not and I don't recall if the one I saw had a clutch lever or shifter.
The NC700X, NC700S and NC700SA come with a six-speed manual gearbox while the Integra and the NC700SD come standard with a second generation of the six-speed dual-clutch transmission first used on the Honda VFR1200F. The version used on the Integra and NC700SD is lighter and more compact due to a simplified hydraulic circuit; a learning function has also been added to each of the drive modes to detect a variety of riding environments.[SUP][16][/SUP] The system uses heavy duty large-diameter clutches to deal with the rigours of use in stop/start city traffic.[SUP][17][/SUP]
"Drive" mode on the transmission generally selects a high gear ratio, keeping engine speeds between 2,000 and 2,500 rpm, while selecting "Sport" keeps the engine running at a higher speed for more power on the open road.[SUP][19][/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NC700_series
 

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Call me an elitist fuck if you will but when you take away the skill building to make someone good at something with little effort - where is the fun of that activity? s.
Even if you made a full size motorcycle (not scooter) fully automatic there still is riding skill set that must exist. If most of use would ride an auto machine we still would come back to the manual as that control goes hand in hand with our riding skills.

If anyone has any saddle time on an old hondamatic they know the skills required to ride a bike. A CVT scoot....I don't know.

Off road as well. An auto Sportsman or Honda quad or whatever in my opinion almost requires more skill than the traditional manual setup.
 

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I am a full on DSG fan boy.
Been daily driving a VW R32 since 08 and have 125k miles on it. The GF has a DSG CC and loves it.

I dont get the hate the trans gets in the car world.

Do miata owners pine for the days of MGBs and leaking oil?
Do 458 owners wish their cars were just a little slower?
These must be the people that feel the Web is bad and jerk off to people that can dowie decimal the shit out of a search.

Tech moves on.
Things get better.

This whole "driver involvement" kick is pure bullshit.
Almost as much so as the "skill" people wax poetic about.

Want to know what takes skill?
Going fast.
Period and end of discussion.

Not that long ago 3.2 seconds 0-60 was silly.
Now flash a new VW Golf and you can do it.

Thing is that the driving force for dual clutch (they are NOT automatics in any way) is not the middle of the road sedans. It is the top of the line extreme performance cars.
They now demand the performance that a DSG gives, and over time the tech trickles down.
Fact is modern supercars are faster without a clutch pedal.
These cars still make you feel alive and take skill to push the limit.

Do F1 drivers look bored? Are their hands just flopping around with nothing to do?

End rant with cars.

With bikes I dont know if there really is a need.
Would a new GSXR1000 be faster with a dual clutch? Personally I don't think so.

A DSG would not make some new rider rossi, that is ignorant. There is SO much more that goes into riding a bike fast then shifting.
I dont see the tech being helpful at all with new riders. Since it is a performance enhancing item it would be wasted.

If the motorcycle industry is going to market this as a crutch then fuck them.
It is a performance system.

I want my top tier bike to have top tier tech.
 

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Last year, I "snuck" into a semi invitation only test drive of the Ferrari California T. The trans was a paddle shift dual clutch tech and to be honest, it was pretty slick.

Yeah, active suspension is here for the super bikes. It's not long before DCT. If it can be brought in as light as possible and "improve" track performance, people will think they want/need it.

Seamless transmission is the big thing now...
 

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My current tractor uses an auto shifting (DCT) transmission.

It gives me further control of the truck and am more aware of my surroundings (though my left leg is withering away...) as a result.

Do I want that on my bike? Not a snowballs chance in a warmer climate. It's part of the overall experience.
 

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What does shifting add to a motorcycle experience?
modern sport bikes run a light switch clutch and super fast change, not like it takes much skill.

for me it is the power ans speed.
mechanics are secondary
 

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"What does shifting add to a motorcycle experience?"

When I go for a drive in a standard car I have more fun and seem more engaged in what I am doing. I think I may drive a little more aggressively as well. That's what shifting does for me, why I have no idea. I would imagine it would do the same with a bike. Can't speak for how it affects other people but it does seem to make a difference.
 

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I generally think like GTO, but I think it is just being from the time I'm from. I am proud to drive my 4 speed and felt like the hydraulic clutches were making everybody too soft. OTOH, I bet there are plenty of guys who look at me and think I don't have any skills because I didn't learn to drive on a non-synchro trans. For me I am sure it is just prejudice and general fear of change.
 

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What does shifting add to a motorcycle experience?
modern sport bikes run a light switch clutch and super fast change, not like it takes much skill.

for me it is the power ans speed.
mechanics are secondary
Sounds like you haven't ridden an automatic or no clutch electric motorcycle yet.
 

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There can be a skill of learning to drive an older vehicle. But we are talking about modern stuff here.
I give props to the guys that hand crank their As, but I don't want a new car with a hand crank.
 

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Sounds like you haven't ridden a no clutch electric motorcycle yet.
I actually have, worked with a company(two actually) to develop electric bikes.

Was not a fan, until I rode one
 

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The way I see it, an automatic transmission is perfect for a hearse and a hydrostatic transmission with a shuttle shift is perfect for a front end loader or lawn tractor where you are constantly shifting direction from forward to backward. Any vehicle that benefits from light weight, mechanical simplicity and can be operated more efficiently with a manually operated clutch and multiple gear ranges should remain as a standard transmission format. I know which one I would prefer to service myself. imho If it ain't broke don't try to fix it with mechanical complexity.
 

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What is mechanically simple about a top tier open class performance motorcycle?

I do not want a CB350 with a DSG, but I sure as shit want a CBR1000RR with one.
 

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What is mechanically simple about a top tier open class performance motorcycle?

I do not want a CB350 with a DSG, but I sure as shit want a CBR1000RR with one.
You gotta remember I ride Trials bikes that are used strictly in competition and my street bike is an MV Agusta F3 with a 6-speed cassette transmission and quick shift ;)

At the bike show this year they had a honda DCT cutaway engine in a glass case, it didn't look light-weight or simple to work on to me:



In fact it looked like it has more than twice as many parts to wear out compared to a conventional clutch.
 
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