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I'm not saying that it does. It MIGHT, less info to process,etc. I say the whole concept was developed mostly to bring in more new riders. Seems natural to go from a 400-650cc scooter to a 700cc scooter-like motorcycle.
I think the vehicle is faster with a DSG.
Rider still has to do his part.
 

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want to hear something sad: my left foot does that with automatic cars. Anybody that has ever ridden with me in a rental call always ends up asking "what's that thumping sound". It's me hitting the dead pedal. Wanna hear something double sad? the '67 GTO is my only automatic car (TH400 with a manual valve body and a dual gate shifter).
But again, we are not talking about standard run of the mill cars.
We are talking about top tier stuff.

Is a manual jeep more fun? Sure. That is just an intangible thing.

Your audi would not be less fun and would be faster with the DSG.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Your audi would not be less fun and would be faster with the DSG.
you would be very wrong about that. probably the same amount of "fun" on a track, but in real world back roads driving I like it better with a clutch. The DSG A3 loaner I had was a bore to drive.

Let's just say what we are all thinking - in "Top tier" sports cars like those made by ferrari the DSG or DCT or whatever they call it (F1?) is only there to help the make accessible those cars to an entire generation of rich douchebags who never bothered to learn to drive stick while allowing them to save face for having bought an automatic ferrari with the "technological advancement" defense. The majority of supercars are used more for attracting 20 something women with a tendency for the kind of bad choices that lead them to fellate 60+ year old men than in anger on a track.

In certain motorsports the DSG makes a ton of sense. F1, Drag racing, etc...but plenty of racing cars still have a good old fashioned clutch and stick. If all you care about is shaving seconds off your auto-x time and using whatever tech is available to do that then a DSG makes sense. If you are one of these people (like me) that is more about pleasure of singular driving and perfecting alreagy great skills, then it doesn't suit my needs. There is a tool for every job.

In the context of a high end sportbike is it the right tool for the job is the question. I actually am curious to see where this leads. One of the bigger restrictions on modern sport bikes is how unforgiving they are getting in control inputs due to the high horsepower they make. I don't hate Nanny bikes like the BMW s1000RR because they keep people like me from doing something I don't even know is stupid given the bike's parameters. I could see a DCT being the thing that allows us to push past 200hp street bikes, but I don't see the racing application...yet.
 

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I think the vehicle is faster with a DSG.
Rider still has to do his part.
Yes and now the riders full attention can be focused of the dynamics of the vehicle and not as much on controlling the drive train. 33% or so less control work with only throttle and brake left.
 

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Fact is the DSG MKV is faster then the three pedal manual.

I do not think the clutch-less (F1 is a single clutch) move has anything to do with making cars easier to drive or opening up the market at all.
It is purely about performance.
A 458 would be slower in every sense with three pedals.
Also many people are looking at these cars on the used market and bitching about spec. Only important part is the guy the spend a quarter of a mill wanted the best tech....and got it.


"diving pleasure" is subjective. I have made 99% of the shifts my car has ever done.
I pick the gear and the line. What my left foot is doing has nothing to do with my enjoyment.



As for bikes I think the weight kills the performance gains.
 

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Well I think that Ferrari and Honda have different objectives. Hondas foray into the new 'automatic' transmission was not with one of it's high performance platforms but rather a sports tourer and a very practical mid-sized street bike.
In performance mode, how long 'til we see a prototype CRF450A?
 

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Discussion Starter #51
up until this point honda has used the DCT in non sport bikes to make bikes more approachable to riders. If they put it in a sportbike then being faster would probably be the goal but it is not gauranteed. The more people you have getting into motorcycling through CVT and DCT bikes like the aprillia mana, NC700, et al...the more people you are going to have that want to ride but can't ride a conventional motorcycle.

you can't discount the other considerations here. Saying the DSG or DCT is purely for performance is full on bullcrap.
 

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up until this point honda has used the DCT in non sport bikes to make bikes more approachable to riders. If they put it in a sportbike then being faster would probably be the goal but it is not gauranteed. The more people you have getting into motorcycling through CVT and DCT bikes like the aprillia mana, NC700, et al...the more people you are going to have that want to ride but can't ride a conventional motorcycle.

you can't discount the other considerations here. Saying the DSG or DCT is purely for performance is full on bullcrap.
I agree. After all the prime directive is always, sales.
 

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If it is used in any other way but performance it is a fail.

Flat don't understand the idea that a bike is easier for anyone without a clutch lever.
 

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I had a habit of hitting the brake on the Suzuki when shifting after all the time I spent on the Triumph. Scared the shit outta myself a few times.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Flat don't understand the idea that a bike is easier for anyone without a clutch lever.
That is because you have never tried to teach someone who can't drive stick how to ride a motorcycle.
 

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This spec using the NC750X as an example pretty much says it all:
"Standard model: 220 kg (485 lbs.) DCT model: 230 kg (507 lbs.) including required fluids and full tank of gas - ready to ride"

DCT is a complex feature that adds 22 pounds to your motorcycle, a quickshifter adds about an ounce.
 

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That is because you have never tried to teach someone who can't drive stick how to ride a motorcycle.
I taught my GF how to move the bike!

- - - Updated - - -

Bike is WAY easier then stick in a car.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I taught my GF how to move the bike!
moving is not the same as riding. In traffic. With distracted assholes who want to kill you.



Bike is WAY easier then stick in a car.
Agreed but to someone who has "never" done it, you might as well be teaching them to pat their head and rub their tummy while hopping on one leg. I don't have statistics on it but while twist and go scooter sales are high, I betcha the transition from first time scooter rider to first time motorcycle rider is very low.
 

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I learned to operate a clutch on a bike before I had an opportunity to do it in a car.
But the first car I ever bought was a 5 speed, and I drove it home with no prior experience with manual transmissions other than bikes and riding around in my uncle's Datsun pickup, watching what he did.

Now I prefer conventional manual transmissions, and between my wife and myself, with 5 cars and 2 bikes, everything has a clutch handle or pedal.
The few automatics I've had failed prematurely, aside from a jeep cherokee and a toyota corolla.
I get bored not shifting my own, and all the manual mode automatics I've driven didn't shift as fast as I'd like, although I know they've gotten much better in the last 5 years or so.
I do know that driving my beetle with the conventional 4 speed and the 40 horse stock engine sucks in traffic, but probably wouldn't have the bawlz to get up the hill to my house if it had a traditional slushbox...
 

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lol I learned to stick-shift in a 1953 VW beetle when I still had to sit on my dads lap because I couldn't reach the peddles. The first time I drove stick solo was on a tractor and the only way I could depress the clutch was to stand my full weight on the peddle :/ think I weighed in at almost 60 pounds by then. :) I'm a little heavier now, makes it much easier.
 
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