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Discussion Starter #1
So...um...sorry to all y'all in the 250GP race about my lines. I just hopped off my RD350 ( which has BRAKES ) on the Ossa ( which has brakes ). Wasn't used to the complete lack of stopping power. Or the gearbox full of neutrals....

Maybe y'all can tell me if this is normal with drum brakes: When braking hard like to turn3, I'd squeeze the piss out of the lever. The brakes seemed to take a second before the started to grab, then they'd grab, then they start to fade a little as I started to let off and lean into the corner. Almost like they needed a second to warm up before they'd grab. There was no vents on the drum, and they felt consistent every lap. Odd.

If I can ever get a decent start on that thing, watch out. It was easily pulling stock CB350s on the straight in the 350GP race. 8)
 

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I noticed on Monday that my t-500 front drum on my 175 was weak a couple of times coming into three. I'm quite sure it was due to the fact that it was cold. On a lap where I touched it coming into one, and touched it coming into two, it would then grab as normal coming into three. On laps where I used it very little it didn't have the normal bite coming into three.

By the time you brake for three, brake for six, it's biting good by ten, and very nice for the chichane. Mine is a prime example of too much brake for the bike...don't use it hard enough to keep it warm for a whole lap. No scoop but it's heavily vented.

I'd say yes you are not imagining things, that it does progressive grab as it warms up and as rotation speed comes down.....ever notice how good they bite in the pits after race? Specially if it's race compound. If it's squeaking nicely every time you touch in the pits after a race then it's in good working order.
JohnnyB
 

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try a milder compound. when i bought mine, i told him i was worried about not heating them aggresively enough. mine seem to hook nicely. and jb, youre right on with the just touch them before going in. everyone ive ever talked to about it says the same thing. (one of the few things all racers can agree on i guess) at summit, i was racing a guy on a V1 bike, and i kicked his ass all over the corners. he was running a disk with a prety agressive compound and i got him into almost every corner he challenged me on too deep. he went by me a few times really fast trying to get me on the brakes. id have to look to see if i beat him in the end though but im pretty sure i did.

and who the hell are you unga wunga??

you were either up front, with the fast guys, or in back with the slow ones. i was the only one in between. and arron and jeremy, its way more fun racing with you guys with wera. man, id like to get ahold of that johnny b at summit.

jc
 

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I was just typing up the results for NHIS and noticed in the 250 gp I was only whooped by two guys, Eric Pritchard and Phil Turkington, I was beat by Parker but only by about 15 feet. Guys behind me included Rob Opiela on the Ossa 250 (not even visible to me I might add).
I think that makes me officially a freakin fast guy :)
JohnnyB

PS. I tried to post this before but I think it was rejected cause I said a bad word.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
quote:
I was just typing up the results for NHIS and noticed in the 250 gp I was only whooped by two guys, Eric Pritchard and Phil Turkington, I was beat by Parker but only by about 15 feet. Guys behind me included Rob Opiela on the Ossa 250 (not even visible to me I might add).
I think that makes me officially a freakin fast guy :)
You had half the straight on me by the finish, nice job. You've got those little 175s moving pretty fast.

So, did you hold off on passing Mary in the 200GP race? It looked like you could've passed her if you wanted to. I imagine it'd be a long ride back if you had, though.

Gaylord told me they had the Ossa on the dyno. It has a whopping 400rpm wide powerband... 8)
 

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Rob is that you?

Let me have my moment of glory please. You are one of the guys I never thought I'd ever finish ahead of... please don't tell me it was the bike.

But since it probably was... I take heart in the fact that last time at NHIS you were on the Ossa and beat Matt Camelhairy in 250gp... and he killed everyone in 200gp ...which in my warped mine it means I vicariously beat Matt three weeks in the past even though I didn't make that race.... does the logic makes sense?

Give me something to work with please.
JohnnyB
 

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PS.

In the 200gp race I had my carbs set up wrong and could only get about 10,200 rpm out of it. In 250gp I put the filters back on and could rev it to 12,000+.

I think I could have made an aggressive pass on Mary and made it stick, but it wouldn't have been easy, or particularly nice. I really did try to pass her on the last lap but just couldn't find a good spot. What is disappointing was I watched her make probably three mistakes on the last lap and still couldn't manage to get around her. She'll drop another couple of seconds easy when she gets her lines down. She has a real problem with traffic though, she'll run great up front or by herself, but well poke around following people rather than pass them. She has a great fear of causing and incident because she feels that there would be people thinking she doesn't belong on a race track. For the most part I just tell her to do what's comfortable for now. Advised her to find someone reasonably fast and experienced and follow them closely, quite closely, get used to being close to other riders and trusting them. It's easier when you can run in the front half of the pack because all you guys know what you are doing. In the 250gp race Parker left me room a half dozen times in the spots where he knew I'd gain some on him, very gentlemanly of him. I didn't seem the same thing when I raced with AHRMA at Beaver Run.
JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #9
quote:
Rob is that you?

Let me have my moment of glory please. You are one of the guys I never thought I'd ever finish ahead of... please don't tell me it was the bike.

But since it probably was... I take heart in the fact that last time at NHIS you were on the Ossa and beat Matt Camelhairy in 250gp... and he killed everyone in 200gp ...which in my warped mine it means I vicariously beat Matt three weeks in the past even though I didn't make that race.... does the logic makes sense?

Give me something to work with please.
JohnnyB
Ok, sure. It was raining that first weekend, and I wasn't smart enough to slow down.

You're fast, and those honda launch much better that the ossa does. Look forward to dicing with you guys on it.

I'm sending Gaylord some cylinder head specs I have for reshaping RD350 heads to a more modern shape. Says he might get the Avengers heads welded up and machined to actually have a squish band. Might do the same thing to a spare Ossa head.
 

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That avenger I think may end up being pretty freakin fast when it's all sorted. I don't know enough about Ossa to know if they ever go fast. But then you don't seem to need a fast bike to go faster than most.

I know one thing... I told Mary no more Mr. Nice Guy, I'm gonna kick her butt next time. I gotta let her try out my bike... I know mine's making at least 4 hp more than hers. She's also going to have to start paying me to work on her bike.
JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #11
quote:
That avenger I think may end up being pretty freakin fast when it's all sorted. I don't know enough about Ossa to know if they ever go fast. But then you don't seem to need a fast bike to go faster than most.
Well, I think Jim's got the avenger for a ride, and I don't need to be in any more races. My knees were hurting at the end of the day. Was in races 4,5,6 and 8,9.

The Ossa... The engine is great, I just need to launch it cleanly on the start. Hard to do when its got NOTHING under 9.5K.

quote:
I know one thing... I told Mary no more Mr. Nice Guy, I'm gonna kick her butt next time. I gotta let her try out my bike... I know mine's making at least 4 hp more than hers. She's also going to have to start paying me to work on her bike.
Lol. Its difficult to ride agressively in the USCRA, where you know everyone. I do my best to make clean passes, mostly in 1,2,7,8,9... but sometimes I get carried away.

Tex wasn't happy with me after the 350gp race. If I remember what happened, it was a clean pass, but he still wasn't happy. I think we were running side by side through 7,8 and I was on the inside for 9. With five races in a row, its kindof difficult to remember everything. Or maybe its all that sniffing of 2stroke exhaust...

Have this hanging on the wall in my office. Nate, me, and Jason Porter on the CB450:

http://www.buzzsplat.net/images/bowl_group_2.jpg
 

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I've noticed that often clean passes at NHIS seem to require one of several things. A much better line, considerably more skill, or substantialy more hp.
Well.. I guess clean means different things to different people. I don't mind at all when one of the better riders in the club like yourself make a close pass. It's exciting and instructive. I've told Mary to always try to leave about two or three feet in the areas where the fast guys usually go around. During practice I've had some of the fast riders pass me on the inside just after the exit of six where the grass kinds of come to meet you on the left as you go up the hill. I've found if I leave about three feet there that the good riders will slip right through without disturbing their line much.

For the most part I'm confident enough in all you guys that I figure if you go for it that all I have to do is remain calm and you'll find a safe way through without causing problems for either of us. In general I'm far more worried about less experienced people behind me that come into a corner too hot and get you from behind. It's pretty scary to watch the guys in the back of the pack when they get bunched up, all kinds of weird shit going on.

Mary and I try to run as far up front as possible...not because we want to win that bad...but because we are afraid of the people behind us :)
JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #13
quote:
I've told Mary to always try to leave about two or three feet in the areas where the fast guys usually go around. During practice I've had some of the fast riders pass me on the inside just after the exit of six where the grass kinds of come to meet you on the left as you go up the hill. I've found if I leave about three feet there that the good riders will slip right through without disturbing their line much.
Yeah... you might not want to do that. Its up to the faster rider to get around you, which is pretty easy to do if your predictable and stay on YOUR lines. Besides, you can't be fast if you're off the fast lines.

Plus I try to pass lap traffic when it'll cause problems for the people chasing me...

quote:
Mary and I try to run as far up front as possible...not because we want to win that bad...but because we are afraid of the people behind us :)
That's always the case. Its the reason why you try to get out of the LRRS Amature class ASAP.

There was one guy on a guzzi last weekend that had the craziest line into T1 that I've ever seen. At the 4 board, he hammered on the brakes and dove to the left. Then he'd run wide in the corner because he started off too far to the left. I almost hit him twice trying to pass him because he was all over the place.
 

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ah, so you were up with the faster group of 350 hondas. texs bike is pretty quick. olmstead is fast everyplace but in a straight line. tex is used to there being some kind of rule for passing. ive heard complaints about wera guys complaining about being passed in places they dont think they should be passed in. blah blah blah....if you leave room, someones going to go by. rob, it was crazy fun watching you over the weekend. just cool dude.


glad this thing is up and running again. now i can be foul mouthed again.

j
 

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It's my first time with drum brakes too. came from the cb350 and 550 brakes with race compound pads, I could stand on it coming into turn 3. now my drum is just as you guys have described, it fades off coming into three. I slid the rear a couple times because the front wasn't doing it. I realized I had to start braking a lot earlier there. Johnny is right about it working well through 6, 10, and the chicane after that though. thanks for the tip, I'm going to try braking a little more going into turn 1. guess I shouldn't have drilled so many holes. btw, its a Kawasaki H1 brake, too much for the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
quote:
It's my first time with drum brakes too. came from the cb350 and 550 brakes with race compound pads, I could stand on it coming into turn 3. now my drum is just as you guys have described, it fades off coming into three. I slid the rear a couple times because the front wasn't doing it. I realized I had to start braking a lot earlier there. Johnny is right about it working well through 6, 10, and the chicane after that though. thanks for the tip, I'm going to try braking a little more going into turn 1. guess I shouldn't have drilled so many holes. btw, its a Kawasaki H1 brake, too much for the bike.
Hmmm, but I don't want to brake for turn1.

Hey, how do you guys make sure that the shoes are hitting the drum at the same time when adjusting them?
 

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quote: Hmmm, but I don't want to brake for turn1.
me too. I guess I could tape up some of the holes instead, maybe that would help.

to be honest I never adjusted this brake at all. I bought it used already laced to a rim and took it to the track. that's why with some adjustment I'm hoping to get some better performance. I'm sure johnny has some way that includes cad drawings, lasers, and a jig. he's too smart to be here.
 

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since i wanted mine to actually work, i had someone else do it for me. its not hard to do, but i dont remember the steps. and it probably depends on your linkage.


jc
 

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Well I can attest to heat making race compounds work better.
After riding the Nelson circut at Shannonvile, which is like a go cart track with lots of hard braking into 180 degree turns. The brake started really working well when it was warm.

At loudon I'm getting where I just don't use the brake much at all. For the most part, on a 200cc bike you just have 3 where you use any real braking, then a bit coming into 6, and the turn before the chicane. It's just not warming things up much. The more I get used to the bike the less I'm using the brake at NHIS.
JohnnyB
 
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