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I've used Newfren clutch plates a couple of times they made a huge difference regarding the noise, and worked well enough. At a little over £50, not a bad price.
 
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I was out in the garage and thought I'd put together a little video showing why Ducati clutches used to be so loud. I'm not sure anyone somewhat new to riding would even understand the "Loud clutches save lives!" T-shirts and other Ducati jokes, so here's little info on the subject.

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
My next track day is at the end of the month. After putting more time into this, a decision was made - the 900 is getting shoved to the side of the garage and the 851 is being prepped instead. The 900ss isn't going to run this year.

Numerous reasons, but the final straw was that when I did the video on clutch noise, I noticed there is some play in the clutch basket. The entire thing can be moved around ever so slighty. Me thinks there is a bearing that's gone south. It'd probably work for one track day but I don't want to buy tires and a battery for it if I have plans of digging deeper into the engine as soon as it's over.

In other news I shopped around for new friction plates and ended up deciding which slipper clutch I want to buy for it... 900ss, meet the slippery slope of not sticking to the plan of doing the bare minimum to get it back on track. It hasn't been ordered yet, but options are being considered. That money I had planned for tires and a battery may get spent in other places. :)

Oh, and "prepping" the 851 will consist of removing some lights, taping up others, and putting the fairings back on. I had already changed the oil and coolant hoses so it's good to go for an hour or two of use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Yeah... so I "finished" prepping the 851. Put all the bodywork back on, and then for yucks turned the key to hear the fuel pump prime.

Nothing happened. Everything else worked but turn the key and no fuel pump. Checked various fuses, could hear a relay clicking, but no pump. Dag nabbit... off with the bodywork, go deeper into trouble shooting. When checking the relay I noticed a connector that might not have been fully attached, so I disconnected it, and shoved it back togther.

When I did that, the fuel pump primed. With the ignition off. WTF? Then I smelled gas, looked down, and saw a puddle of gas on the floor. Double WTF???

Disconnected the relay again. Ignition still off. Plugged relay back in. Fuel pump primed but nothing leaked this time. Also discovered that cycling the ignition key made the relay next to this one click, I had mistaken that as the fuel pump relay clicking. Oops.

Long story short, replacing the relay seems to have fixed the problem. The bike ran like crap until it was warm, but then I already knew there was more tweaking to do. It will have it's day on the dyno in the future but for now it just has to run well enough to make it through a track day. I'm pretty sure there will be demo bikes there too, so it really only has to make it though a couple sessions!

Here's the 900ss unceremoniously stuffed in the corner, while the 851 sits on the trailer. I'm heading out of town tomorrow, returning Sunday night, then leaving early Monday morning for the track day. You might thing loading the bike five days early is overkill, but true to form, it turns out the Kendon trailer was not set up to work nicely with an 851 and I spent hours getting it all to play well together.


SOMEDAY I'll have it all down where I'll have a ready to go trackbike to put on an already set up trailer, so trackday prep will consist mainly of throwing crap on the trailer and into the Jeep instead of hours spent prepping everything for maybe a couple hours of track time. I'm starting to remember why I sold my last track bike.
 

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Slipper clutches are getting almost affordable for these things but it's still more than I care to spend right now. I retired recently, I haven't got that kind of money to toss around anymore! For now I'll probably gather up all the various clutch plates and baskets and stuff I have around and come up with the least worn combination I can. Then when I sell something and don't have tires to buy I'll spring for a slipper clutch and new plates. Unless there's some other bright and shiny thing that catches me eye at the moment.
Slippers are cheaper so long as you can install them yourself without a bunch of specialized tools! Learned that the hard way on my last bmw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
In thinking about it I realized that for a lot of years I've been using engine braking instead of real brakes, to the point that sometimes that's all I use. It'd take some getting used too. And nothing sounds better than a two valve Ducati that's engine braking... so I'm not as enamored with them as I was a couple weeks ago.

Par for the course for me. By the time I get to where I need it there will likely be some other bright and shiny thing I'll want more!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
... and upon further reading, I can get an adjustable slipper clutch and change the amount of engine braking so I'm back into the slipper clutch lust phase.

It's still running the stock ignitors and coils, and an open airbox (yes it has a filter, I took that off already).


Carbs are racked with long manifolds. After pulling them off I measured the outlets and the ID of the screw in adapter/mount/whatever is 39mm. I suspected that's what they were. I'd rather have 41mm but it's not something I'm going to worry about. Dance with the one that brung ya and all that. I'll just set it up best I can with the smaller carbs. I checked the plugs and it's been running pretty rich so changes will need to be made.


Part of me wants to pull it down to nothing and redo everything, but my toy fund says that's not a great idea. Hmm...
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
the ducabike ones are great and no sider spring to break.

I was looking at the K-bike stuff but should check out Ducabike too.


I doubt I'll be ordering a clutch soon. I'll likely deal with the carbs first, I want to rebuild them if for no other reason than to find out how they're set up now. Need to search more on what jetting people are using for the 39s, though I'm guessing finding someone who's using 39s with a 944 kit won't be easy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I had some time today so I tore into the carbs to see how they are set up. Maybe I could even get away with not rebuilding them?

Yeah, not so much.


Mains are 160s minus whatever the organics take away




I've seen worse but I'm glad I decided to tear into this before using it. Some parts are in an ultrasonic cleaner right now, I'll order some rebuild kits before I go much further.

I tried to do a video of the clutch basket movement but it didn't work out. Suffice it to say this engine has more play then either of the other two I have sitting around. The shaft moves in and out along it's axis, and the basket also has some up/down movement. And, the hub had three washers installed instead of one as mentioned in the manual. Something's up. I checked two other engines and neither of them have the same movement. More investigation to follow.

While I was looking at the engines I realized one of them is earlier. It's got an elephant logo cast in, and a round boss cast on the right side that went away in later castings.



 

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adding washers in the hub is the easier way to take up the wear. i've seen 4. movement in shafts is not good. the input shaft bearing can fail, but it's pretty rare. andy on youtube had the barrel roller at the other end fail, never seen that before.

160 main in a 39 seems very big to me. i'd go 150 or so, with the bigger bore it may even need smaller due to the extra suck. usually the pilots are too big and the needle root too lean.

 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I pulled the side cover on the clutch side. The shaft has axial play but there isn't any movement up/down so my guess is it's a shimming issue, not a bearing issue? I haven't looked at a shop manual yet to see how it's supposed to be set up but going by the bevel Ducatis I've played with, there are shims involved. And the case has to be split to deal with it. Grrr... this could be a slippery slope.

 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I spent some time going through service manuals and it looks like it is a shim issue on the shaft. I guess I'll pull the engine and split the cases after all.

I also ordered some carb parts. Here are the settings I found vs what CA Cycleworks sold the 41mm kits with.

Font Rectangle Material property Number Parallel


I spent a lot of time trying to find baseline jetting for a 944 with 39mm carbs. Basically it turns out you can find examples to support any set up you want to go with.

I ended up ordering smaller main jets, smaller slow jets, richer needles (EMQ), and other misc stuff.
 

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i like 50 pilots and emr needles. the 39 do need the smaller mains.

if it shifts fine and doesn't miss gears or sound bad i'd be leaving it. once the clutch nut is done up it doesn't move, and only the second gear on the other end is going to be able to move around at all if the bearing inner sleeve can move on the shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
i like 50 pilots and emr needles. the 39 do need the smaller mains.

if it shifts fine and doesn't miss gears or sound bad i'd be leaving it. once the clutch nut is done up it doesn't move, and only the second gear on the other end is going to be able to move around at all if the bearing inner sleeve can move on the shaft.
I finished rebuilding the carbs but want to check the valves before I put it back together. I went with 150 mains and EMQ needles to start with. I see most guys going with EMRs but the example I found with 944cc and 39s ended up with EMQs, so there ya go.

You've persuaded me to leave the clutch as is for now. Not that it took much persuasion.

There was an oil leak between the alternator cover and case, so I pulled the cover off to reseal it. Once it was off I found a crack. I knew a chain had broken at some point from gouges on the case but didn't know it had cracked the cover.



The other one I have is cracked too, worse than this. At first I thought I'd just buy another one, but after checking ebay I'm going to try to fix this first. Turns out they aren't as cheap as I thought...
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
Just about everything I touched today had issues. I fixed the cover. I got it to where it was fine but thought I could make it look a little better. I should know by now NEVER EVER do that. It never works well. Got it to where it will work but it looks worse than when I started. And get this, it's all internal anyway. WTF. You can't see it without pulling the cover. More went wrong aside from the crack but whatever, it's fixed. I think. And I only had to pull the caover back off once because of something I forgot.

Ok, one thing didn't have issues. I ordered a rear hugger for it and surprisingly it showed up today. It should work, but when I pulled the rear wheel off to check the fit I discovered this:


That bolt is supposed to be a bar shaped thing that holds the caliper mount in position. But no, for whatever reason they replaced that with a bolt, which means the rear wheel wouldn't move after the axle was loosened. And the bolt doesn't thread in very far so I think the threads are tweaked. Probably an easy fix but I'll deal with it later, by this time I wasn't in the mood.

And then when I grabbed the caliper mount to clean it up I noticed this lovely little detail.




I have a spare mount but it's for an underslung caliper, so I'd need to buy a longer brake line. It's cheaper to replace the mount. At this point, this bike is all about keeping it cheap. It still may end up being a parts bike after all.

And as long as I'm whining... I checked out the website listed on the bike's fairing - Trackdaymagazine.com It hasn't been updated in over a year, and the content it did have completely generic. So those stickers came off the bike today. Which reinforced just how trashed the bodywork is on this thing. I took off the link to the other site too as long as I was at it.

The GOOD news is, if I do get this thing working well enough to ride on the track, it will absolutely fill my desire for a bike that's basically disposable! I'm just afraid what else I'm going to find wrong with it before it's done. To say I don't have a lot of confidence in the work that was done on the engine is an understatement.

Oh yeah... that reminds me. Someone sent me a link to a 748 for sale. Doesn't run. Very cheap. 4.5 hours away. But my toy fund is at zero right now! Anyone wanna buy a Guzzi?
 
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