[krrisztian]

Hey guys!

I'm planning on building an electric cafe racer in this style like NightShiftBikes did. He used a 2003 Suzuki Savage S40 frame but I don't want to copy him so I'm looking for other frames like this one. It's a cruiser frame so very simple as I want to go for a simple and skeleton look without support rods through the frame like on a CB500-750 or Suzuki GS550. I was looking at those frames as they're really popular between cafe racers but they have too many "bones" when exposed as it will be a "skeleton" style like seen above.
Could you help me and suggest some bikes with frames like the Savage S40? I don't mind some cutting and welding some unnecessary parts but the main point is that the frame should be like just a circle without rods.

A pic of the Savage:

Thanks for the help!

 

[pwalo]

use a crosser frame...... right shape for that by the looks.

 

[Ews]

How heavy is that thing going to be? I know the batteries are hefty, but what are they compared to a motor?

 

[krrisztian]

Actually electric bikes are way lighter than normal ones. My planned battery weighs about 10-15kg (22-40lbs - not car batteries) and I'm planning using a hub motor which is around that same weight as the battery. So It's basically the frame itself plus max. 25-30kg (80lbs). I want the whole bike to be really light, that's why the skeleton style removing everything that's not absolutely necessary.

pwalo - yeah I thought about that but can a cross frame be converted into a "cafe"?

 

[Andyshep]

"Cafe" is bollocks. Build something that works well and it'll look fine.

 

[Ews]

Actually electric bikes are way lighter than normal ones. My planned battery weighs about 10-15kg (22-40lbs - not car batteries) and I'm planning using a hub motor which is around that same weight as the battery. So It's basically the frame itself plus max. 25-30kg (80lbs). I want the whole bike to be really light, that's why the skeleton style removing everything that's not absolutely necessary.

pwalo - yeah I thought about that but can a cross frame be converted into a "cafe"?

I guess the tech has come along way. I remember seeing an electric bike years ago, I think I remember reading that it was uber heavy and basically un rideable.

 

[krrisztian]

Yeah a lot of people think that because bikes with modern batteries aren't that popular due to their higher price so people use lead-acid car batteries that weigh a lot. A modern Zero bike weighs the same as a 750cc Suzuki sportbike.

 

[Geeto67]

You need to pick a frame that has some properties that are advantageous to what you want to do. This means you need to look at real engineering considerations.

Avoid japanese frames from 1960's to 1983. The Japanese at that time had not yet figured out how to get high performance motorcycle to handle all that well and as a result they are spooky when pushed hard.

When you look at something like a norton featherbed frame - the reason they handle so well is because they carried most of the mass in line with the axles and created a lower center of gravity which allowed them to change direction quickly and handle steady through the turn. This mass centralization is something that buell did as well. The evolution in handling has been toward a wishbone style setup because of mass centralization process and also creating a direct link from the headstock to the swingarm pivot.

Honestly if it were me I would use a Guzzi Tonti frame, esp if I could move the motors out to the wheels. A guzzi spine frame might also be good, but you would need to make the battery cage a structural member.

 

[Geeto67]

guzzi spine frame

 

[knappyfeet]

I might be tempted to stick with the savage frame and make it your own......or a Ducati monster frame or something like that.

What's going to be the power plant? 17 inch wheel motor? 6000V? Chain transfer? More information on what you have on mind would be nice.

 

[krrisztian]

Oh yeah, the motor I'm looking at is the Enertrac hub motor, 10kW constant (20kW if water cooled), 96V on an 18" wheel. As I look at their measurements and data, the motor should be able to get me to 120-130km/h due to the light weight of the bike and me (I'm 150 pounds). If not that, then the Motenergy ME1115 mid-drive motor with 12kW cont. and 30 peak with either a chain or belt drive (belt preferably). What do you think would be the better choice?

Thanks guys the suggestions by the way, but knappyfeet I think is right...I think I'll stick with the Suzuki Savage S40 Boulevard LS 650 (whatever it's date-correct name is haha).

 

[krrisztian]

Oh yeah, the motor I'm looking at is the Enertrac hub motor, 10kW constant (20kW if water cooled), 96V on an 18" wheel. As I look at their measurements and data, the motor should be able to get me to 120-130km/h due to the light weight of the bike and me (I'm 150 pounds). If not that, then the Motenergy ME1115 mid-drive motor with 12kW cont. and 30 peak with either a chain or belt drive (belt preferably). What do you think would be the better choice?

Thanks guys the suggestions by the way, but knappyfeet I think is right...I think I'll stick with the Suzuki Savage S40 Boulevard LS 650 (whatever it's date-correct name is haha) because I just can't find any other frame that fits so perfectly to my plans, I'll just customize it somehow in another way. Another way would be the Harley 883 a bit customized on the back but that costs around 5000$ soooo, yeah.

 

[knappyfeet]

Please keep us informed on your project.......it sounds really cool.

Just some thoughts.......not to change your direction........but the bare bones look is nice but perhaps you could dress up some things. Monkey is on this site and can make custom stuff. Rycamotors.com specializes in parts and stuff for the Savage for a more "cafe" look or scrambler look.

This is my ignorance but perhaps there's a way to add high power small solar panels for that trickle charge on the batteries?? I really don't know though.

Good luck

 

[krrisztian]

Sure!
Yeah so basically what Matt did on his bike the Savage which I attached first is based on some of the parts from ryca. I think he used the clip-on bars, the rear and front fork and the straight seat add-on (I don't know the exact names of the parts tho). So I'm familiar with Ryca and I like them very much and thanks for the mention but they're american based, I live in Europe and I can just get the clip-ons and forks-springs here just locally as well. But if I'd go for a normal gas powered Savage build I would really consider their kit.
As for the solar panels, I'm planning a battery that's above at least 2kWh (that's 2000W). A 1 square meter (avg. solar panel size) produces 100W (in an hour) of electricity on full "load". Even if I could mount some smaller ones on the side it wouldn't produce much energy. Maybe if I got stuck in the desert it'd charge up in 2 days but that's not a good enough reason to have them haha. Some guy did it, I saw it on instructables I think but don't know how it turned out for him.
Thanks

 

[Geeto67]

Sure!
Yeah so basically what Matt did on his bike the Savage which I attached first is based on some of the parts from ryca. I think he used the clip-on bars, the rear and front fork and the straight seat add-on (I don't know the exact names of the parts tho). So I'm familiar with Ryca and I like them very much and thanks for the mention but they're american based, I live in Europe and I can just get the clip-ons and forks-springs here just locally as well. But if I'd go for a normal gas powered Savage build I would really consider their kit.

have you ever seen one in person? it's tiny. Like pit bike tiny. It's the bike vespas make fun of for being small.

 

[Cyorg]

Ever watch the movie "Charge"... you can find it on Netflix. TT race for electric bikes. While you are at it you may as well watch "Road" if you haven't seen it. (about the Dunlops narrated by Liam Neeson) bring your crying towel.

 

[krrisztian]

I've only seen the bike and the frame in pictures but I don't think that it's too small at all, the guys at Ryca have a lot of videos and pics of it as a cafe racer bike and it's definitely not too small.
Plus I don't have much experience with motorcycles so far, only ridden some of friends' bikes (50cc-500cc) and I frankly don't want a 200mph superbike or something that big.

Cyorg I will check them out!

 

[Geeto67]

I've only seen the bike and the frame in pictures but I don't think that it's too small at all, the guys at Ryca have a lot of videos and pics of it as a cafe racer bike and it's definitely not too small.

ive seen several rycas in person and even sat on one. My wife who is 5'6" tall and a cj360t was slightly too big for saw it and said it was fucking tiny. But you are right you know so fucking much because you have seen pictures!!!! Once you strip all the crap off an S40 savage it's basically a Honda grom with big wheels.

Plus I don't have much experience with motorcycles so far, only ridden some of friends' bikes (50cc-500cc) and I frankly don't want a 200mph superbike or something that big.

Oh so you are an expert then. Lol. Go back to pipe dreaming.

 

[krrisztian]

sorry if I said anything wrong man, I just think they aren't going to be too small for me, I'm a small young guy. I even feel great on a scooter haha. I'll check a Savage out and then I'll see.

 

[hillsy]

If it were me I'd use a spar frame from a more modern sportsbike like an R6 or FZR6/400, etc. Depending on where you are, you may have access to a bunch of 4 cyl 250's which will be lighter.

This way you are not limited space wise by having to deal with a frame backbone, and the running gear is going to be heaps better / stiffer / lighter. You can always add some downtubes on the front to hold everything in (not sure about the smaller bikes, but ZXR750's and early ZX9R's had front downtubes as well as the spar frame).

Keep us updated - I'm pretty interested in the new electric tech stuff with bikes.