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My question, what constitutes an "old guy"? I mean i'm only 37, but I can honestly say I have been riding motorcycles/mopeds/dirtbikes/etc... since I was 11. So for 70% of my life has been on two wheels, does that make me an old guy? Or does the fact that I had a drivers lic. when cell phones still weighed approximately 1.23 metric tons, make me an old guy?
I had a fucking mortgage when cell phones were still science fiction. Yer a punk!

Kidding. Cell phones were around before I bought a house, though hardly anyone had them.

But yer still a punk. ;)
 

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My question, what constitutes an "old guy"? I mean i'm only 37, but I can honestly say I have been riding motorcycles/mopeds/dirtbikes/etc... since I was 11. So for 70% of my life has been on two wheels, does that make me an old guy? Or does the fact that I had a drivers lic. when cell phones still weighed approximately 1.23 metric tons, make me an old guy?
Your eyes start to fail, you get huge eyebrow hairs, somebody says libido and you think rapid transit, you are living on a fixed income, you know what pain is ... all the time. Shall I go on
 

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I had a fucking mortgage when cell phones were still science fiction. Yer a punk!

Kidding. Cell phones were around before I bought a house, though hardly anyone had them.

But yer still a punk. ;)
Well I got my DL in 1996, in Montana. So at least I can remember a time when $30 would fill the tank on my 74' Plymouth Duster, buy me a big mac and still have some left over for a 6 pack of PBR. Oh and I was fortunate enough to enjoy "reasonable and prudent" speed limits (or lack thereof) in the Highway and interstates. Until all those damn Californians ruined it lol.

Desmo, I have a theory. For every year a person spends in the military, it ages your body 2. So I spent 8 years in and I'm 37 actual years. Hold on a second I need to take off my shoes and socks to math this out proper... Yep by my theory/math I'm 45. Does that get me "old guy" status? LOL
 

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Well I got my DL in 1996, in Montana. So at least I can remember a time when $30 would fill the tank on my 74' Plymouth Duster, buy me a big mac and still have some left over for a 6 pack of PBR. Oh and I was fortunate enough to enjoy "reasonable and prudent" speed limits (or lack thereof) in the Highway and interstates. Until all those damn Californians ruined it lol.

Desmo, I have a theory. For every year a person spends in the military, it ages your body 2. So I spent 8 years in and I'm 37 actual years. Hold on a second I need to take off my shoes and socks to math this out proper... Yep by my theory/math I'm 45. Does that get me "old guy" status? LOL
LOL I remember the Duster, it came out half a dozen years after I watched Armstrong walk on the moon.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
man, i wouldn't piss on one of those old air head shit boxes if it was on fire. don't get the desire for them.
Maybe I would have said the same thing (but more politely) when I would ride nothing but 4cyl, 16V aluminum frame jap bikes. I was looking for a different type of riding and I found it. It’s almost as fast as a new Civic. Haha. The bike has amazing balance and is well engineered. It already outlasted every crotch rocket I ever owned and will probably bury bikes that are sitting on showroom floors. Oh. And I can have both carbs off the bike and sitting on a work bench in 10 minutes flat.
 

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LOL I remember the Duster, it came out half a dozen years after I watched Armstrong walk on the moon.
Shit yer old.

In all seriousness, I envy people who were alive to see that. Talk about one of the greatest moments in all of Human history. When I look back at my life, most notable things I can say I saw: 9/11 and a bunch of shitty presidents.

Oh and Britney Spears, that's probably the best thing to come out of my generation, at least the best looking.
 

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What's your experience with them?

I bought one and it was kind of a meh bike for me, but the more I own it the more I have come to appreciate it a lot. It's insanely simple to work on, every part is available from BMW, it's a very maintenance friendly motorcycle, and the look is growing on me. they aren't fast, but not slow (probably about as fast as my old DOHC cb750), but the low center of gravity and low speed handling is really where the bike shines. They aren't racers, but they aren't harleys, and it has a certain charm.
just working on them and road tests afterwards. i don't think i ever rode one outside the road test environment. didn't hate them as much as early (well, most/all) k series, but double meh is how i'd describe them. compared to most anything else i could be road testing it was a pretty pedestrian event. i just don't like them.
 

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In my many years working as a technician and machinist, if I had a dime for every non-working, effed up design I've seen by an educated engineer, I would be a rich man. My entire job working for Michelin was improving their assembly equipment and repairing design mistakes. To assume that something on a motorcycle is inherently good or without room for improvement because it was designed by an engineer, is not very good dimensional thinking. We had a saying, "Engineers design things. Technicians make them actually work." I swear I remember you guys from the front porch of the General Store at the intersection of Hwy 11 and Hwy 14, bitching about all those shithead teenagers putting huge tires on the back of their Mustangs and Novas. :rolleyes:

And I like airheads because they're simple and reliable.
 

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I'm weird I like BMW anything :| K bikes are the best little car motor that you can ride on one wheel. Fast on superslabs, slow on track.
BMW have alway seemed like huge motorcycles to me, first seen them in Sonic motorcycles in the late 1960's, remember the 60's? that was an interesting decade.




Look ! Look! it's Sputnik !

TintedHalfAnemonecrab.mp4
 

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In my many years working as a technician and machinist, if I had a dime for every non-working, effed up design I've seen by an educated engineer, I would be a rich man. My entire job working for Michelin was improving their assembly equipment and repairing design mistakes. To assume that something on a motorcycle is inherently good or without room for improvement because it was designed by an engineer, is not very good dimensional thinking. We had a saying, "Engineers design things. Technicians make them actually work." I swear I remember you guys from the front porch of the General Store at the intersection of Hwy 11 and Hwy 14, bitching about all those shithead teenagers putting huge tires on the back of their Mustangs and Novas. :rolleyes:

And I like airheads because they're simple and reliable.
i don't think people are saying engineers are infallible, they aren't. But the point we try to make with every newbie is that if you are going to modify something - improve it, and at the very least use the same principles of math, science, and logic that the person who designed the thing used.

most conversations with newbies can be summed up like this:

"newbie: hey I just found out about this cool thing by looking at pictures on the Internet. I have never ridden a bike before but I saw them do it on the youstergrams and it looked easy so I bought a completely different type of bike that doesn't run and an angle grinder. Should I cut 6inches off or 7?

cr.net: hey maybe you should get a license, make the bike run, learn to ride, and then read and research some basic things because what you are looking at looks like a bad idea.

newbie: sounds hard, plus I already bought the angle grinder. Can't you just tell me what I have to do to make this thing happen that I see in my mind but you can't?

cr.net: well no because nobody wants your death on their conscience. How about you take some easily attainable baby steps instead?

newbie: but.....angle grinder.....bzzzz.....sparks...then I get cool bike. Beside that guy did it and he's not dead.

cr.net: yet. He's not dead yet. Why listen to us you are just going to ruin your motorcycle anyway.

newbie: you guys are old. I hate you. You're not my real father."

Fin
 

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How did we get onto shitting on engineers?!?!
 

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Desmo, I have a theory. For every year a person spends in the military, it ages your body 2. So I spent 8 years in and I'm 37 actual years.
I disagree... I've been in for 9 years now and feel better than I did when I was 22. Granted it helps that I'm a goddamn leg (airborne is obsolete anyways, bring on the stealth gliders).
 

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I disagree... I've been in for 9 years now and feel better than I did when I was 22. Granted it helps that I'm a goddamn leg (airborne is obsolete anyways, bring on the stealth gliders).
Maybe I'm just a giant pussy then lol. I think part of my problem is that it took me until I was 30 to realize that I am not super man and it's ok to ask for help when doing heavy lifting and hard work
 

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How did we get onto shitting on engineers?!?!
It comes up most any time you have technicians talking about their jobs. Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of great technicians and a lot of bad engineers. In my experience the engineers who rail on technicians usually aren't at the top of their game. On a related note - I've had numerous techs tell me they could do an engineer's job... and then ask me what engineers do all day. Think about that for a minute. I made an earlier comment on self proclaimed experts. It applies to other personalities too.

I've seen everyone from techs to PhDs from within our company get put into a development engineering position and not last a year. Education doesn't determine who's going to be good or bad at it. Nor does title. That said, if as an engineering manager you have an engineering group that is continually creating designs that need to be changed by techs in order to work, you've been doing a pretty shitty job of training your engineers. And/or have a pretty poor understanding of what an engineering degree provides someone. Along those lines, every company I've ever worked for/with has had design standards or something like them. There are rules/procedures/processes to follow in development that are specifically meant to avoid ending up with designs that are costly/impossible to manufacture. There are design reviews with various groups within the company during the process. No one person (or group) can be expected to know everything about that particular product to the point they can do it on their own based on what is taught in school, it doesn't work that way. "Exhaust development 101" wasn't an option in my school anyway. I find it pretty shocking that Michelin is set up where the techs are doing the final development work but I've never worked with them. Must be a clusterfuck of an organization.

Every part on every production bike ever made has been a compromise. I don't care if it's a Kymco or a Ducati. Somebody had to make a choice that favored one advantage over another. Because of that, any bike/part can be "improved" by anyone who has a different set of priorities. It has nothing to do with the education or job title of the person who developed that part to begin with. That said, if you haven't got a clue why something is the way it is to begin with, you probably aren't the person who's going to be making an improvement by modifying it.
 

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Maybe I'm just a giant pussy then lol. I think part of my problem is that it took me until I was 30 to realize that I am not super man and it's ok to ask for help when doing heavy lifting and hard work
Stuff happens, sometimes you can't avoid getting broken. The thing that drove me nuts was when we'd get kids fresh out of AIT with a permanent profile... or when all of the S1 clerks have permanent profiles. What injured them? accidentally shredding everyone's awards and leave forms?

My goal is to make it to 20 years with a PUHLES of 111111 and 0% disability. I'm not going to be one of those shitbags who goes and gets "diagnosed" with sleep apnea and erectile disfunction (just to boost percentages) either.
 

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It comes up most any time you have technicians talking about their jobs. Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of great technicians and a lot of bad engineers. In my experience the engineers who rail on technicians usually aren't at the top of their game. On a related note - I've had numerous techs tell me they could do an engineer's job... and then ask me what engineers do all day. Think about that for a minute. I made an earlier comment on self proclaimed experts. It applies to other personalities too.

I've seen everyone from techs to PhDs from within our company get put into a development engineering position and not last a year. Education doesn't determine who's going to be good or bad at it. Nor does title. That said, if as an engineering manager you have an engineering group that is continually creating designs that need to be changed by techs in order to work, you've been doing a pretty shitty job of training your engineers. And/or have a pretty poor understanding of what an engineering degree provides someone. Along those lines, every company I've ever worked for/with has had design standards or something like them. There are rules/procedures/processes to follow in development that are specifically meant to avoid ending up with designs that are costly/impossible to manufacture. There are design reviews with various groups within the company during the process. No one person (or group) can be expected to know everything about that particular product to the point they can do it on their own based on what is taught in school, it doesn't work that way. "Exhaust development 101" wasn't an option in my school anyway. I find it pretty shocking that Michelin is set up where the techs are doing the final development work but I've never worked with them. Must be a clusterfuck of an organization.

Every part on every production bike ever made has been a compromise. I don't care if it's a Kymco or a Ducati. Somebody had to make a choice that favored one advantage over another. Because of that, any bike/part can be "improved" by anyone who has a different set of priorities. It has nothing to do with the education or job title of the person who developed that part to begin with. That said, if you haven't got a clue why something is the way it is to begin with, you probably aren't the person who's going to be making an improvement by modifying it.

I was more just busting balls early in the morning.

Engineers vs Technicians will always be a thing. While there is a lot of overlap in skills, they do remain very different roles in any organization.
In my experience (and not just because it applies to my situation) I have found that the best Engineers I work with were once Technicians in some way.
Can not stress how important hands on knowledge is in many roles. It is a hard thing to prove via a resume and even harder to pick up on in an interview, but there is value.

I wish there was some better way to rank "ability to learn".
To me it separates the people that were trained how to do a task from those that understand how something functions.
A company needs both, but in different areas.
 

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As an retired engineer I've seen both technicians with thumbs in the middle of the hand and engineers who designed parts impossible to neither manufacture nor service. But some brilliant ones too. Enough of that.
How to handle the angle grinder happy?
Once, in another forum, someone just found a cheap, original Jawa twostroke and asked for ideas on how to remake it.
I suggested he should fix it, ride it and fix upcoming problems. After that three choices.
1. Find that he didn't like it. Then sell it (easier if original)
2. Find you like it and think it's cool riding an original bike.
3. Find you like it but make some mods so that it suits you better.
4 years later, he's still riding it happily in original trim.
 

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That’s pretty much the mantra here:
”Get it running, fix what’s broke, make it safe (in original trim). Ride the crap out of it, and let the bike tell you what needs to be changed or improved. Deal with cosmetics last.”

What the normal response is: “Y’all can’t see the vision. Y’all are old and don’t know how it’s done these days. That’s not how the do it on Manbun Cafe Racer TV!”

Most of the time they show up, and it’s their very first bike, and they have no idea what a good or bad handling motorcycle feels like. They get told five times not to hack up their bike and they just keep asking “What if I hack it up THIS way, then? What do ya think?” It gets tiresome, and as is common with old guys, we get crabby.
 

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So funny enough, I started reading this today and it's not as hipster as you'd think (it's actually really insightful)

 

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So funny enough, I started reading this today and it's not as hipster as you'd think (it's actually really insightful)

Someone gave me that book when it first came out. I started reading it, but it read way too much like a college thesis. Couldn't finish it. The thing is, my dad was a shop teacher and had a lot of the same views this guy has, so the subject matter interests me. Still couldn't finish it.

Maybe I'll give it another shot someday. It took me multiple tries to get through Zen and the art too. (And I can't remember a thing from that book other than the concept of gumption traps)
 
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