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Gotta love it when replies get out of order. I'm not going around any island any time soon. Round the bend perhaps, so I assume that last response was aimed at Mr GeeTo
 

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Lol yeah, the island I was referring to is Long Island.

we have some drinking and bullshitting to catch up on.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
BTW Geeto, you are dead wrong about Kawasaki twins. I really like the A1Ra and the replica frame with an S series triple is more gooder. So to speak.
i meant the 4stroke kz twins with four spinning chains inside. Of course two stroke Kawi twins are excused.
 

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I don't really know why bucci came to comment on this thread but I guess it's good I had missed your other post.

I'm torn on where to go with it, I feel like the modern framed specials are too played out and the h1r replicas are cool but still not to my liking. I just want something that doesn't look insane but that's handles well enough to throw it around in the mountains. I think in going to stick with fz600 swinger, braced h1 frame, mild h2 engine and some light wheels, either aluminum laced or dymag. Depending on the outcome of weighing the components I have right now I may go inverted forks. Should be a decent little ripper. If there was something that jumped out as obviously a million times better I would do it but unless an fz400 swinger comes up for sale I'll stick with what I have.

One thing is for sure it won't be getting knobby tires
 

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Discussion Starter #45
that was a joke for all of those who are typing responses right now
Trust me, nobody is taking you seriously on anything. Now Shhh!!! The grown up are talking.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I'm torn on where to go with it, I feel like the modern framed specials are too played out and the h1r replicas are cool but still not to my liking.
Do you see a lot of either in real life? see that's the real bad part about the Internet, it makes you think there are more of them then there actually are in this world. I feel like this is the Internet fashion getting the better of you, tune it out and decided what you really want.

I just want something that doesn't look insane but that's handles well enough to throw it around in the mountains. I think in going to stick with fz600 swinger, braced h1 frame, mild h2 engine and some light wheels, either aluminum laced or dymag. Depending on the outcome of weighing the components I have right now I may go inverted forks. Should be a decent little ripper. If there was something that jumped out as obviously a million times better I would do it but unless an fz400 swinger comes up for sale I'll stick with what I have.

One thing is for sure it won't be getting knobby tires
i think there are a lot of ways to answer the parts selection question. Given your size I would almost say the h series engine in an s series frame might be the better way to go. Jeff G from PA built one a while back that was just an h1 in an s3 frame and the bike was a little rocket ship. Plus it follows the old adage of "want to get an h series bike to handle? Chang the frame". I know it isn't in the parts pile of h stuff you currently have, but still the s3 is generally regarded as one of the best handling triples. Here is the tutorial from the resource site if you are considering it:
400 Conversion
 

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Very true, its all on the internet. I'm sure now that I think about it we are talking more like .0000000000000000000001% of the motorcycles in real life are specials like that. I guess when you see 10 of them on the internet it looks like a lot. I don't really care about looks and the fact that every time I ride something other than the ninja I get people coming up to me asking if it is a cafe racer makes me want to build something that doesn't really draw attention at all.

I want to do a real "build" with this bike thats why I am talking about it so much. I have rebuilt repaired and bolt on customized a bunch of motorcycles in the past few years but nothing that actually required lots of skills or imagination. Those are easy and I have pumped out over 100 in almost 4 years.

What makes them so different from the H frames? They look very similar. Are the swingarms the same, as in will the FZ swinger swap in the same on both frames? I could always get one of those aluminum swingarms that are being repopped for the H2 like I got for the RD. Direct bolt in, a little longer and aluminum. Would keep a classic look and keep me from having to hunt down a 400 swniger.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Very true, its all on the internet. I'm sure now that I think about it we are talking more like .0000000000000000000001% of the motorcycles in real life are specials like that. I guess when you see 10 of them on the internet it looks like a lot. I don't really care about looks and the fact that every time I ride something other than the ninja I get people coming up to me asking if it is a cafe racer makes me want to build something that doesn't really draw attention at all.
The solution is, just don't stop anywhere there are people. Or just don't take off your helmet unless you have to. Or put on your "don't fuck with me face". It's always worked for me in the past but then again I don't use it often because I like talking to people, even "cafe racer" bandwagon jumpers. I actually had a dude last weekend use the "make it your own" line with me when I was talking to him after stopping with the ducati somewhere...gave me a great chance to climb up on the soapbox in real life.

But I digress. Just tune out the internet chatter and really find at the core what you liked about kawi two strokes in the first place. To me they are bonkers bikes that sound like god's vacuum cleaner through race chambers so everything I screw around with on those bikes is based on making that better. But then again what do I know, I blow up every kawi triple I touch.

I want to do a real "build" with this bike thats why I am talking about it so much. I have rebuilt repaired and bolt on customized a bunch of motorcycles in the past few years but nothing that actually required lots of skills or imagination. Those are easy and I have pumped out over 100 in almost 4 years.
I don't know what a real build is, just screw a motorcycle together. I don't know what kind of skills or imagination you are trying to use but I think you are just looking to challenge yourself with some things that you kind of know about but aren't really tested, and that's cool and I get it. All I can tell you is research, research, research, and then research again. Another thing working against me when I started my h1 project was that half the time after I had done something I usually found a better or simpler way to do something so it was always a fight as to whether I re-do it and let the costs spiral out of control or earmark it and try to get to it later when the way I did it the first time fails.

What makes them so different from the H frames? They look very similar. Are the swingarms the same, as in will the FZ swinger swap in the same on both frames? I could always get one of those aluminum swingarms that are being repopped for the H2 like I got for the RD. Direct bolt in, a little longer and aluminum. Would keep a classic look and keep me from having to hunt down a 400 swniger.
They are lighter and roughly 7/8ths scale. Kidding aside the s-series frame design is roughly the same as a later H1 but a lot of the dimensions changed which had the weird side effect of making the frame less "twist prone". For instance the backbone frame tube is shorter and more directly connects with the frame support tube from the swingarm to the upper frame rail. think about it this way - they made all the levers smaller so any leverage force to twist the frame has to work twice as hard.
 

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FYI the 94-97 VFR750 wheels are 5 spoke and match the R1/R6 five spoke wheels nicely. They are also the narrowest of the single side VFR wheels at 5" wide. The VFR used a linkage mono-shock where the NT650 bolted directly to the swing-arm.

I can second Geeto's comment on the FZR600 swinger & wheel assembly being heavy. Went that route with my GT550 and parts off a 93 FZR600.
 

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I try to be nice to people and talk when they stop but my goodness it gets soooo old.

I just like that they are odd motorcycles no one has really heard of and 2 stroke power really makes it awesome. I just hate they handle and brake so poorly. Make it handle, stop and go fast are my objectives.

I feel like most of the bikes ive done were stock or something I have seen somewhere else. I want to do something different and not copy something ive seen that was cool. I want to do things because they actually improve the bike not because they were easy or cheap. I've avoided a lot of upgrades on other bikes because it was too much work to make what i really wanted work. Any monkey can bolt crap together, thats pretty obvious nowadays.

I love trackers, not that I would change and go this route now but saw this while researching earlier. That is sweet.

tunerw7.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #51
a guy on the old KTW board built this:

10592.jpg

H2_STREEET_TRACKER1144797545.jpg

It cost him $20K but he actually had C&J make him a brand new tracker frame, plus he used new CDI boxes from holland, and just about everything was custom and no expense spared. It was far and away a fantastic machine.

But let's take a step back for a second - A lot of the h series reputation is just that - reputation and not reality. Bone stock a late h1 is no more or less scary to ride that however willing you are to get in over your head. It isn't like the bike will just spontaneously burst into flames if you look at it funny, it's just that it has enough quirks that if you aren't paying attention you are in over head quicker than you realize. Things like the steering dampner, the N on bottom shift pattern, the marginal 70's brakes, the fact that the bike will keep pulling hard past redline instead of falling off, the fact that the grab rail is sometimes a structural member of the frame. I don't know how hard you ride on the street but honestly a few simple mods usually brings the h-series bike up to passible 70's standards.

These bikes really respond to the Lotus formula of "add lightness and simplify". Remember the crucial thing about a lever is it has to have forces acting upon it otherwise it is just stationary, the less weight those forces acting on the frame are, the less twisting you get.

keep coming back to the basics - make a plan stick to the plan, see how it rides, make adjustments.
 

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I don't ride that hard on the street I push it but not crazy. I want it to pretty much be like my RD400 on the street but with more power. I just dont feel like the H2 or H1 ever felt that comfortable throwing around like the RD does. If I can get it to be a little better than the RD and faster I'd be pretty happy. I think I'm going to stick with the H1 frame for right now and try to source an S3 titled bike for future revisions. I have enough H2 stuff I could build another one off of my mistakes depending on how good or bad it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
the RD is a tiny bike. the triples are anything but. my RD400 felt like a toy by comparison. To make a car comparison, think of it as the difference between a 1969 Alfa romeo duetto and a 1969 camaro. Both are of the same era but they are two different approaches to two different kinds of fun.
 

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I don't ride that hard on the street I push it but not crazy. I want it to pretty much be like my RD400 on the street but with more power. I just dont feel like the H2 or H1 ever felt that comfortable throwing around like the RD does. If I can get it to be a little better than the RD and faster I'd be pretty happy. I think I'm going to stick with the H1 frame for right now and try to source an S3 titled bike for future revisions. I have enough H2 stuff I could build another one off of my mistakes depending on how good or bad it goes.
Why not put together an RD with a Banshee engine instead?
 

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I'm still doing that one too. I don't like to have too many projects going at one time but I find two helps because when you are waiting for parts or money you can always work on the other one. I spent a lot of time trying to work out the fuel injection on the banshee engine and I still dont feel confident after talking with several companies. There isnt one set up for what i need so if I go that route it will be tweaking and testing. For now I am setting it up as a standard carbureted engine but leaving enough room to change it if I can ever find some solid direction on it. The RD400 frame will be a fairly stock bolt on upgrade stuff so nothing exciting to watch. I did say I would make a thread so maybe I should stop being lazy and do that.
 

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View attachment 103747
Hey geeto, where can I find a site that does stuff like this all day long?
There are a LOT of people who do it on that triple site.... but is there a site JUST for "streetfighter" stuff.
Ya know....
Old style engine and frame with new style suspension?


I dragged the H1 home. It is COOOOOL!
I love the H1a's. They are beautiful. This one will have more tricks than a magician!!!!
I haven't even tried sliding the swingarm in the frame.... I am in the process of rebuilding a KZ650 and don't want parts everywhere.....
Maybe next week!

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The Madmaxxy pad, now comes with a months supply of mytol.
Hey geeto, where can I find a site that does stuff like this all day long?
There are a LOT of people who do it on that triple site.... but is there a site JUST for "streetfighter" stuff.
Ya know....
Old style engine and frame with new style suspension?


I dragged the H1 home. It is COOOOOL!
I love the H1a's. They are beautiful. This one will have more tricks than a magician!!!!
I haven't even tried sliding the swingarm in the frame.... I am in the process of rebuilding a KZ650 and don't want parts everywhere.....
Maybe next week!

___
The Madmaxxy pad, now comes with a months supply of mytol.
Hey geeto, where can I find a site that does stuff like this all day long?
There are a LOT of people who do it on that triple site.... but is there a site JUST for "streetfighter" stuff.
Ya know....
Old style engine and frame with new style suspension?


I dragged the H1 home. It is COOOOOL!
I love the H1a's. They are beautiful. This one will have more tricks than a magician!!!!
I haven't even tried sliding the swingarm in the frame.... I am in the process of rebuilding a KZ650 and don't want parts everywhere.....
Maybe next week!

___
The Madmaxxy pad, now comes with a months supply of mytol.
So I ran into madmaxx on another board and was helping answer some questions for him. So as a sign of good will I have decided to post the info he wante here so we have something productive (ain't I just a nice guy)

ok so here are some pics of my now dormant 1974 h1/ fzr bike. These are the only pics I have and the bike is in the back of pop's garage and not easy to get to:

















Ok, this is probably the slowest project I have ever worked on. I have been building this bike since 2002 and haven't worked on it yet in 2007. That being said here is all the info I can muster:

Rear end:
The rear is a stock 1988-89 fzr400 swingarm I found in a junkyard. The pivot bolt is the same size as the h1 as is the swingarm width. I removed a set of washers from the end caps and the swinger bolted in with the stock h1 mount. For the shocks I took the arm to a friend of mine who tig welded (the arm is aluminum) the dual shock mounts. In retorspect I should have monoshocked it but I wanted the look of dual shocks. If I were to monoshock it I would have cut the mid brace top shock mount out of an fzr600 and welded it into the h1 frame (the fzr600 subframe is steel). The fzr600s have a very similar swingarm but it is steel which makes adding the dual shock mounts easier if you want to go that way. Howvever you are going to need the fzr400 rear wheel and brake as it is narrower and the chain line is almost spot on for an h1 (it is spot on for an h2 - between 1/4 and 1/8 inch off for an h1). Instead of the 160 rear the fzr400 runs you want a 150 and either deck the sprocket carrier or use an custom motor sprocket to make up the diff (sprocket specalists). I used 2002 r6 rear sets because the rear master is the same and the rearset brackets have the mounts for the master built on to them. Easy as pie. All of this should work for an early h1 and early h2 as well. The fzr400 arm is too short for a later h2 and makes the bike look funny. You will have middle pipe clearance issues with this setup so be prepared to run custom chambers or hack existing aftermarket ones. Stock exhaust is too heavy and valuable to waste time modifying it to work. If you can used wirges pipes are junk and cheap (worse performes than stock pipes) - therefore you can hack them if you are a DIY. If you want to pay someone tomcat on the kawi board will make you a set for around $700 or so (don't quote me on that) and the bike will scream.

Front end:
I did it the hard way. I had a machinist grind and press out the h1 stem and then I put it in the fzr600 lower clamp. I got the whole front end from a wrecking yard for $100 so I didn't mind the expirmentation. The 1994 FZR600 front end has a steel lower clamp so my h1 stem was welded in after it was installed in the clamp. After that I bored the top of the clamp to slip over the larger h1 stem and bolted her on. The end result looks like kawasaki did it from the factory. Since then someone else has figured out how to adapt a gsxr front end using only a spacer for the top (the bottom bearing surface of the fzr600 and the h1 take the same bearings, that is why I chose it - the gsxr front end swap is common on fzrs). Search kawasakitriplesworldwide.com and you'll find the post on it.

Maxx - there is a guy in sweeden with a really trick 1970 h1 with h2 motor and GSXR upsidedown forks and monoshock rear - looks badass. You can e-mail me any time with questions and trouble shooting, I am pretty helpful when it come to this end of things.

hope the air is clear.
Thanks Geeto for maybe getting my foot back in the door.....

Ok folks.... here is the deal....
I bought a basket case '70 H1 for $500. No papers, different tank, smoked center cylinder, etc.
I just finished rebuilding a KZ650 motor for a friend/family member that fried an FZR600 motor last year. I did all the work for free because he is relations.... but in exchange, I get his first born son and all the '94 FZR600 parts I could ever want.... so I took everything (except his first born... he pooped too much)!!!!
Swing arm, forks, wheels, clipons with controls, foot controls, etc.

So.... now for the modding.

Thanks Geeto... you are super smart!!!
What it looks like now, and is a blast to ride.
103749
 
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