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Discussion Starter #1
So I am going through the rulebook as posted on the USCRA web site, and the files are dated as being updated last on Feb 25 2005. Then I go through the files as posted on the Groups page, where I have been telling folks to go to look at the new rule book. There are significant differences in what is written: (Specifically, the interpretation of nos. 9 and 12 in the first instance) Should the rulebook be changed or should the web page be updated?

I have posted this to the USCRA line . . .

As on the "web" page rules
Formula CB
Formula CB, a spec class for near stock Honda CB350, CL350 and CB360 Twins. The purpose of Formula CB is to provide a entry level class for new riders and a low-intensity and economical class for any rider. To meet these goals the class is intended for basically stock bikes. Anyone who disregards the spirit of rules for this class will be asked to move to LWSV. With the creation of this class, Honda CB350's will no longer eligible for Period 1 - 350GP, but can participate in Formula CB and Lightweight Supervintage. All Formula CB races may be run with the 350GP. All currently legal CB's running in 350GP will be legal for Formula CB.

Regulations:
Stock Engines with 5% overbore limit. No internal modifications.
External gearing changes, sprockets and counter-sprockets, are permitted
Drum brakes required. May use aftermarket brake shoe linings, including but not limited to appropriate racing compounds are permitted.
Stock Carburetors are required and shall not be overbored, Air boxes may be removed or modified, aftermarket air filters are permitted.
Exhaust system may be changed. Aftermarket exhaust systems and silencers are permitted.
Cam chain tensioners may be updated.
Electronic ignitions are allowed.
Clip-ons, aftermarket handlebars such as clubman, straight bars or dragbars are permitted.
All street equipment such as turn indicators, headlight, taillight, side-stand and kick stand shall be removed.
Stock frames and swingarms only. Aftermarket steering head bearings and swing-arm bushings are permitted.
35mm maximum fork tube diameter
The motorcycle shall otherwise be 'stock'. Any modifications not specifically listed above shall not be permitted.


This is what is stated in the pdf, marked as "rule book final" on the USCRA Groups file site:

A spec class for near stock Honda CB350s and CB360 Twins.
The intention of this class is to provide a entry level class for new
riders and a low-intensity and economical class for any rider.
To meet these goals the class is intended for basically stock bikes.
Anyone who disregards the spirit of rules for this class will be
asked to move to LWSV. With the creation of this class, Honda
CB350's will no longer be eligible for Period 1-350GP, but are
eligible in Formula CB and Lightweight Supervintage. All Formula
CB races will be run with 350GP.
1. Engines: Stock with 5% overbore limit. Internal modifications:
slipper style cam chain tensioners only permitted.
2. Carburetion: Must be stock, air boxes may be removed
or modified.
3. Exhaust: System may be changed.
4. Gearing:External gearing changes permitted.
5. Frame: Stock frames and swingarms only.
6. Forks: 35mm maximum fork tube diameter.
7. Brakes: Drum brakes required. May use aftermarket brake
shoe linings.
8. Clip-on handlebars permitted.
9. All street equipment must be removed.
 

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so it only says stock frames, nothing about modifying, bracing, or gusseting.

me
 

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Discussion Starter #3
see there's the issue. the pdf rulebook says stock frame, and all street equipment must be removed. I take that to mean that frames can be modified all you want, as long as the base is a stock frame. I also consider the kick starter to be "street" equipment.

As far as JoAnn C. having mikunis, well, I never looked at her bike. But when summer comes, and she is racing in formula cb, I'll be the first to tell her that the bike is illegal for that class, and I 'd be sure to point it out to whoever is teching her bike. I don't care if she runs in the race, but i'd want to make it clear to her that she is not following the spirit of the club. It's not like it would take any of us more than an hour to put a set of stock carbs on her bike. and there are plenty of us with carbs to spare.

It's not like she's going to win with mikunis. But if the winner of the class had mikunis, we'd all be saying something about it.
 

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yeah, i aggree, but tech doesnt have anything to do with it. youd have to go to the rules person for that weekend. whoever that is now. i think the same way tex does. tech is for tech, not for rules enforcement with regards to class etc. the tech guys should only be worried about making sure your shit is wired and your your gear is up to snuff. for what its worth, i usually lap joanne. and rab might as well be running mikunis.

jc
 

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i don't know what you mean concerning rab, joe. in my opinion, rabbie is one hell of a smooth rider and a fierce competitor. he has recorded thousands of laps at that course. i always wonder what these truly talented riders would do at other courses. but bearing that in mind look at zach's results at mid-o this year. i believe that it was his first time running there and mid-o is tricky in places. back to rab's program; we all know what pete t. can do do a bike to ensure it's hp production. my point is add it all up (rabs riding + pete's tuning) and you have a winning combination.

i would say if j not that d would start going to pete for tuning, rab would be in trouble.

my thoughts,

tex
 

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quote:
so it only says stock frames, nothing about modifying, bracing, or gusseting.
Which means you are not allowed to do it. If it doesn't say you CAN do it, you can't.

"To meet these goals the class is intended for basically stock bikes.
Anyone who disregards the spirit of rules for this class will be
asked to move to LWSV."

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
 

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dude

you are just trying to fuck with me because now i am ready for your surprise downshift in t1 t2. i reckon your stock frame comment is alittle harsh....i prefer the ... a welded, braced stock frame... is a stock frame. it is what it is... i guess.

matt
 

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Please just write out in black and white what the F it is we are supposed to be following. Everybody here, as we said before, got moved to FCB from P1 350 on the same welded braced frames we currently ride. As it says in the rulebook "All Formula CB races may be run with the 350GP. All currently legal CB's running in 350GP will be legal for Formula CB."
This isn't a case of people taking their ball and going home. It was fine before and if it's not fine now it's news to all of us (or me anyway).
bfd
 

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i knew before this was done id have to appologize to some dumbass. my comment about rabbie only meant he could fucking have a turbo charger under that thing, and as far as most of the rest of the field goes, it wouldnt matter. because when hes on, hes on. and there aint no stoppin him. of course tex has to take my comment in a negative light. and make me defend myself.

you know, i had all day to think about this. 35mm, thats all it says about forks. so any year 35mm fork? anything right? and gee, if its meant to be a cost effective way to get into racing, why not copy the wera rules and say no fairings? a stock frame is just that, a stock frame. it doesnt say no modifications to the frame. it just says stock. the rules on the class are obviously a little grey. when it comes to the letter. i think it leaves alot open. and to say spirit of the rules is crap. the spirit, being "economical", i think rabs bike wouldnt fall into the "economical" category. but then again, we probably all have different interpretations of economical. im not complaining about his bike, his skill or any of that. just that i think hes a shining example of a situation that someone else could come into the club and go "wtf?" as far as im concerned, im going to build and run my bike like i would have 5 years ago. (ok, maybe a little better) anyway, as far as im concerned, if its not specific, its open to interpretation. what exactly is street trim. does that include the subframe?? its only real use is to hold the fender. i also oticed the word stock in the final line is in quotes. what exactly does that mean??

if the rules' only intent is to limit what you can do, then id say take a look around the pits someday. probably 95% of the bikes have things done to them not outlined in the rules. i prefer to think of it as, if it doesnt say you cant, do it. (so id be interpretting the later rule book)

and just so you all can get a jump protesting me this year. today i finished detabbing my frame and cutting off the sub frame. my welder came by and said no prob, hes in for hooking me up. matt, i hope you'll have some time this spring. i want a tank and seat.

cup half full, cup half empty.

rules suck.

jc



Edited by - joe c on Dec 13 2005 8:34:05 PM
 

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quote:
cup half full, cup half empty.
Exactly. You can do one of two things
1) Ignore the rules, run what you want, and ignore eveyone else not following the rules
2) Ask that people follow the rules and suggest changes to the rules that make sense.

This all being said, I've just been trying to play devil's advocate here. I might just run Formula-1 next year, maybe F-2 as well.

On legal bikes. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
 

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im for both!

something else to remember. this is a new class. there are going to be changes. probably more for next year. really i dont think it makes sense to let people on the grids with different standards on machines, unless the thought is people will be leaving the class and they'll get rid of the earlier bikes and phase in the new ones. i also think the class champion should be bumped out and into the next class for the following year. so anyone who wins the class, should not be allowed back in and should run lwsv. just to keep things fresh and competative at the front. i mean, if its a newbie class, i think thatd be good. and itd keep a good rotation of class champs. which could be cool. and thats not anti rabbie, or anything like that. ive known rabbie a while now and hes a great guy and fast rider. i have nothing against him. and i really like talking racing with him. always tons of fun to hang with and talk to.

ok, i cant go on about this anymore. its just too annoying. like the stupid fork debate last year. (gee, im glad i never filed off those lugs!)


jc
 

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quote:
something else to remember. this is a new class. there are going to be changes. probably more for next year. really i dont think it makes sense to let people on the grids with different standards on machines, unless the thought is people will be leaving the class and they'll get rid of the earlier bikes and phase in the new ones. i also think the class champion should be bumped out and into the next class for the following year. so anyone who wins the class, should not be allowed back in and should run lwsv.
That's actually a pretty cool suggestion. You should send it to Karl or whomever is on the rules committe.
 

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joe stop being so anti-rabbie.

tex

p.s. - fairings are allowed on cb350's in wera 2006.

EDIT - DAMNIT - EDIT
 

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tex, its not that im so "anti-rabbie" its just that im so pro-tex. wait a minute.....isnt that a tampon?


when i get the new wera rulebook, i'll read it cover to cover. (its actually ok that they allow fairings now. i never understood why they didnt to be honest. its not like theyre required.)


jc
 
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