Frankenstein Build
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When you can't buy unique replacement parts any more that makes it obsolete. Obsolete makes it old and possibly only one more crash or one more engine failure away from becoming scrap.
"I'm a millennial, so for me the 90s were about 10-15 years ago"
I'm a boomer, when did they stop teaching arithmetic
"I'm a millennial, so for me the 90s were about 10-15 years ago"
I'm a boomer, when did they stop teaching arithmetic
Ben , for future reference. When your wife says "you will never" it is easier to say "you are probably right" at the time and that will be the end of it. If you say "yes I can" and then don't, you have opened yourself to a life of "remember you were wrong".
The vig on this bet is "I told you so" and you'll never pay that back.
The vig on this bet is "I told you so" and you'll never pay that back.
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9,223 Posts
There's a work-around for the wife problem; you just keep buying more and more motorcycles in pieces and leave the parts spread out all over the garage or stored neatly in boxes, then one day you end up acquiring enough parts to assemble a complete working motorcycle and all you need to do is hide all the extra parts. Don't let her find any more then 2 wheels at a time or it can become awkward to explain why your motorcycle project has 6 wheels.
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578 Posts
My friend had a great solution. He told me if I ever bought a bike just have it dropped off at his place. He would throw it on a trailer and deliver it to my driveway the on next Saturday right in front of my wife. "Hey, my buddy has to clean out his barn and this needs a home - it is yours if you want it - free."
I never needed to do it but it is brilliant.
I never needed to do it but it is brilliant.
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12 Posts
Hey everyone! Alright soooo the bike isn’t running quite yet but I’ve rebuilt the engine with new engine blocks, put it all back together, checked compression and it’s looking good. One of the engine mount posts snapped off in the process….so had to take apart everything and reinstall it all over again with a new post. Now I’m starting to see why maybe buying a bike that’s been dormant for 20 years is a bit of a large project….anyway. Now it’s onto electrical and I can’t seem to get any spark to the plugs. I have a wiring diagram, a multimeter, lots of beer and im trying to figure out the issue. I’ve bypassed the kill switch and ensured the new battery is charged. Lights turn on when the ignition key is turned, and the horn works so there are some signs of life! But when I go to kickstart the bike, there’s no spark. I have the plugs out of the engine and grounded when im testing this.
Any thoughts on where to begin or what the issue might be? It seems like power is going through all four fuses but I’ve definitly reached a point where im stuck.
Any thoughts or suggestions on what to check or where to begin to get spark to the plugs?
thanks everyone!!
Any thoughts on where to begin or what the issue might be? It seems like power is going through all four fuses but I’ve definitly reached a point where im stuck.
Any thoughts or suggestions on what to check or where to begin to get spark to the plugs?
thanks everyone!!
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185 Posts
It seems you should start by getting a bit of sleep. Sleep is key to good decision-making.
Next, I would check for power at the coils when the ignition is turned on.
Also With the ignition on check for power at the points.
You could possibly manually operate the points to verify the spark. This could indicate improper points settings.
It could be advantageous to read in a manual how a points system works.
If you have power at the coils and points I would then check to see if the coils have proper resistance.
This information would be found in your service manual.
I am guessing that you have picked up new points and condensers.
I would get condensers at a minimum they go bad over time just sitting.
Points can be cleaned up with a points file or sandpaper but may need replacment.
Some other things to consider:
Old plugs can be bad and not spark.
Spark caps can be bad.
Lead wires from coils can be bad, some can be changed others can't.
I think you can change the wires on the Yamaha's. This is never a bad option on such an old bike.
FYI:
Beer never helps at the beginning of the job.
It however might help after you have thoroughly failed to complete your initial task and given up.
Next, I would check for power at the coils when the ignition is turned on.
Also With the ignition on check for power at the points.
You could possibly manually operate the points to verify the spark. This could indicate improper points settings.
It could be advantageous to read in a manual how a points system works.
If you have power at the coils and points I would then check to see if the coils have proper resistance.
This information would be found in your service manual.
I am guessing that you have picked up new points and condensers.
I would get condensers at a minimum they go bad over time just sitting.
Points can be cleaned up with a points file or sandpaper but may need replacment.
Some other things to consider:
Old plugs can be bad and not spark.
Spark caps can be bad.
Lead wires from coils can be bad, some can be changed others can't.
I think you can change the wires on the Yamaha's. This is never a bad option on such an old bike.
FYI:
Beer never helps at the beginning of the job.
It however might help after you have thoroughly failed to complete your initial task and given up.
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185 Posts
And advice from the AI:
![Youtube Zombie]()
how does a points ignition system works
A points ignition system uses a mechanical ignition switch, commonly called a points, to open and close the circuit to the spark plug. The points are typically located on the camshaft and are opened and closed by lobes on the camshaft as it rotates. When the points are closed, a current is allowed to pass through them to the spark plug, igniting the fuel in the engine's cylinder. When the points open, the circuit to the spark plug is broken and the engine's cylinder fires. This process is repeated for each cylinder in the engine, providing the spark necessary to power the vehicle.
![Youtube Zombie]()
this explanation needs some work as you did not discuss the ignition coils
You are correct. In a points ignition system, the points are used to control the current from the battery to the ignition coil, which is a transformer that increases the voltage of the current. This high-voltage current is then sent to the spark plug, where it jumps the gap and creates a spark that ignites the fuel in the engine's cylinder. The ignition coil plays a crucial role in the points ignition system, as it is responsible for providing the spark necessary to ignite the fuel. Without it, the engine would not be able to run.
![Youtube Zombie]()
how do you trouble shoot a points ignition system?
There are a few common troubleshooting steps that you can follow if you think your points ignition system is not working properly:
![Youtube Zombie]()
This could be refined a bit.
I apologize if my previous response was not clear or comprehensive enough. Let me try to provide a more detailed explanation of how to troubleshoot a points ignition system:
![Youtube Zombie]()
would it be advantageous to check the system at key points for electrical current ie:voltage?
Yes, checking the electrical current, or voltage, at key points in the points ignition system can be very helpful in troubleshooting any issues with the system. By using a multimeter to measure the voltage at various points in the system, you can determine whether the current is flowing properly and identify any areas where there may be a problem.
For example, you can use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the points, which should be the same as the voltage of the battery. If the voltage at the points is significantly lower than the battery voltage, it could indicate that the points are not closing properly, which could be caused by wear or damage.
You can also use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the ignition coil, which should be higher than the voltage at the points. If the voltage at the ignition coil is lower than it should be, it could indicate a problem with the coil itself or with the connections to the coil.
By measuring the voltage at key points in the points ignition system, you can quickly and easily identify any issues and take appropriate action to fix them. This can help to ensure that the system is working properly and the engine is running smoothly.
![Youtube Zombie]()
could a condenser be the issue?
A condenser, also known as a capacitor, is a device that is commonly used in points ignition systems to help reduce the amount of electrical current that flows through the points. This helps to extend the life of the points and prevent them from burning out or becoming damaged.
If the condenser is not working properly, it could cause a number of issues with the points ignition system. For example, if the condenser is leaking or has failed completely, it could allow too much current to flow through the points, causing them to burn out or malfunction. This, in turn, could cause the engine to misfire or not run at all.
If you think the condenser may be the issue with your points ignition system, you can check it using a multimeter to measure the capacitance. If the capacitance is not within the manufacturer's specified range, the condenser may need to be replaced. It is also a good idea to check the wiring and connections to the condenser, as any loose or damaged connections could also cause problems with the system.
![Youtube Zombie]()
how does a points ignition system works
A points ignition system uses a mechanical ignition switch, commonly called a points, to open and close the circuit to the spark plug. The points are typically located on the camshaft and are opened and closed by lobes on the camshaft as it rotates. When the points are closed, a current is allowed to pass through them to the spark plug, igniting the fuel in the engine's cylinder. When the points open, the circuit to the spark plug is broken and the engine's cylinder fires. This process is repeated for each cylinder in the engine, providing the spark necessary to power the vehicle.
this explanation needs some work as you did not discuss the ignition coils
You are correct. In a points ignition system, the points are used to control the current from the battery to the ignition coil, which is a transformer that increases the voltage of the current. This high-voltage current is then sent to the spark plug, where it jumps the gap and creates a spark that ignites the fuel in the engine's cylinder. The ignition coil plays a crucial role in the points ignition system, as it is responsible for providing the spark necessary to ignite the fuel. Without it, the engine would not be able to run.
how do you trouble shoot a points ignition system?
There are a few common troubleshooting steps that you can follow if you think your points ignition system is not working properly:
- Check the points for wear or damage. Over time, the points can become worn or damaged, which can prevent them from closing properly. If the points are worn or damaged, they should be replaced.
- Check the gap between the points. The gap between the points needs to be set to the manufacturer's specified distance in order for the ignition system to work properly. If the gap is too large or too small, the engine may not run smoothly. Use a feeler gauge to check the gap and adjust it as necessary.
- Check the ignition coil. The ignition coil is responsible for providing the spark necessary to ignite the fuel. If the coil is not working properly, the engine may not run smoothly. You can check the coil by using a multimeter to measure the resistance of the coil. If the resistance is not within the manufacturer's specified range, the coil may need to be replaced.
- Check the spark plug. The spark plug is responsible for igniting the fuel in the engine's cylinder. If the spark plug is not working properly, the engine may not run smoothly. You can check the spark plug by removing it from the engine and inspecting it for signs of wear or damage. If the spark plug is worn or damaged, it should be replaced.
- Check the wiring and connections. The points ignition system relies on a network of wires and connections to deliver the current from the battery to the ignition coil and spark plug. If any of these wires or connections are loose or damaged, the engine may not run smoothly. Check all of the wiring and connections to make sure they are secure and in good working order.
This could be refined a bit.
I apologize if my previous response was not clear or comprehensive enough. Let me try to provide a more detailed explanation of how to troubleshoot a points ignition system:
- First, check the points for wear or damage. The points, which are a mechanical ignition switch, can become worn or damaged over time, which can prevent them from closing properly and cause the engine to misfire or not run at all. To check the points, remove the distributor cap and inspect the points for any signs of wear or damage. If the points are worn or damaged, they should be replaced.
- Next, check the gap between the points. The gap between the points needs to be set to the manufacturer's specified distance in order for the ignition system to work properly. If the gap is too large or too small, the engine may not run smoothly. To check the gap, use a feeler gauge to measure the distance between the points. If the gap is not within the manufacturer's specified range, adjust it as necessary.
- After checking the points and gap, check the ignition coil. The ignition coil is a transformer that increases the voltage of the current from the battery, which is then sent to the spark plug to create a spark that ignites the fuel in the engine's cylinder. If the ignition coil is not working properly, the engine may not run smoothly. To check the coil, use a multimeter to measure the resistance of the coil. If the resistance is not within the manufacturer's specified range, the coil may need to be replaced.
- Next, check the spark plug. The spark plug is responsible for igniting the fuel in the engine's cylinder. If the spark plug is not working properly, the engine may not run smoothly. To check the spark plug, remove it from the engine and inspect it for any signs of wear or damage. If the spark plug is worn or damaged, it should be replaced.
- Finally, check the wiring and connections. The points ignition system relies on a network of wires and connections to deliver the current from the battery to the ignition coil and spark plug. If any of these wires or connections are loose or damaged, the engine may not run smoothly. To check the wiring and connections, inspect all of the wires and connections to make sure they are secure and in good working order.
would it be advantageous to check the system at key points for electrical current ie:voltage?
Yes, checking the electrical current, or voltage, at key points in the points ignition system can be very helpful in troubleshooting any issues with the system. By using a multimeter to measure the voltage at various points in the system, you can determine whether the current is flowing properly and identify any areas where there may be a problem.
For example, you can use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the points, which should be the same as the voltage of the battery. If the voltage at the points is significantly lower than the battery voltage, it could indicate that the points are not closing properly, which could be caused by wear or damage.
You can also use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the ignition coil, which should be higher than the voltage at the points. If the voltage at the ignition coil is lower than it should be, it could indicate a problem with the coil itself or with the connections to the coil.
By measuring the voltage at key points in the points ignition system, you can quickly and easily identify any issues and take appropriate action to fix them. This can help to ensure that the system is working properly and the engine is running smoothly.
could a condenser be the issue?
A condenser, also known as a capacitor, is a device that is commonly used in points ignition systems to help reduce the amount of electrical current that flows through the points. This helps to extend the life of the points and prevent them from burning out or becoming damaged.
If the condenser is not working properly, it could cause a number of issues with the points ignition system. For example, if the condenser is leaking or has failed completely, it could allow too much current to flow through the points, causing them to burn out or malfunction. This, in turn, could cause the engine to misfire or not run at all.
If you think the condenser may be the issue with your points ignition system, you can check it using a multimeter to measure the capacitance. If the capacitance is not within the manufacturer's specified range, the condenser may need to be replaced. It is also a good idea to check the wiring and connections to the condenser, as any loose or damaged connections could also cause problems with the system.
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Multi-meter is great but it's just a tool, you have to learn how to use one and interpret the readings or it's useless. Use your multi-meter to set the gap and test the breaker points. Resistance measured through the points when they are closed should be zero. The moment the points open as indicated by the alignment of timing marks on your flywheel, test meter resistance should indicate infinity. If it doesn't work that way then you have things assembled incorrectly and that is a common error. If the breaker points meter test correctly then they are not the problem.
Condenser/capacitor is what makes the spark and it does that because capacitors store electric energy until they are grounded and then they release all of their stored energy at the same time. Just like when you walk across a carpet floor in your socks and then touch something that gives you a static shock in this scenario you are the capacitor. If the condensers are old just replace them, it's a relatively inexpensive part that is prone to failure. It's just a tiny metal can full of rolled up layers of paper and metal foil that can easy be damaged by heat, water and rust. Points and coils are easy to meter test, condenser not so easy to test but it is also the cheapest part in the entire assembly.
Condenser/capacitor is what makes the spark and it does that because capacitors store electric energy until they are grounded and then they release all of their stored energy at the same time. Just like when you walk across a carpet floor in your socks and then touch something that gives you a static shock
in this scenario you are the capacitor. If the condensers are old just replace them, it's a relatively inexpensive part that is prone to failure. It's just a tiny metal can full of rolled up layers of paper and metal foil that can easy be damaged by heat, water and rust. Points and coils are easy to meter test, condenser not so easy to test but it is also the cheapest part in the entire assembly.
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9,223 Posts
If it turns out to be a defective spark unit, let me know before next week and I can shop for one for you while I look for one for that other guy. Maybe I can get a bulk discount on spark units
edit: cancel that offer, I just looked at the service manual, doesn't even show a spark unit so it can't be that. Roll with new condensers
edit edit: good recommendation by @Youtube_Zombie to test resistance on the spark leads and caps as per the manual & OP: Does the bike have a solid state or ancient points type voltage regulator, apparently they came both ways. If it is points type I would replace it with solid state.
edit: cancel that offer, I just looked at the service manual, doesn't even show a spark unit so it can't be that. Roll with new condensers
edit edit: good recommendation by @Youtube_Zombie to test resistance on the spark leads and caps as per the manual & OP: Does the bike have a solid state or ancient points type voltage regulator, apparently they came both ways. If it is points type I would replace it with solid state.
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185 Posts
I got my first multi-meter when I was 8 or 9 from Radio Shack. I still have it. It is more reliable than the new digital unit I own. Didn't everyone learn how to use a multi-meter in first grade?
Now I wonder does the AI know how to use a multi-meter?
Now I wonder does the AI know how to use a multi-meter?
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9,223 Posts
Did you buy all the Forrest Mims books too
still highly recommended reading. Should be mandatory study in grade school, but first you would need to make the teachers read them.
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185 Posts
I have one of them.Did you buy all the Forrest Mims books too
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Hello ladies and gents!! Yup still here and still crankin away at the Frankenstein build. Making some progress though! Installed a starter button because the last one was bogus, rewired the wiring to the starter motor, got the starter motor working and now got 2 of 3 spark plugs sparking. I’m getting closer and closer to yelling “it’s alive!!” (Frankenstein pun intended).
I’m running into a problem though and that’s with the third spark plug. There’s no spark at the plug and no visible spark at the points ignition. I replaced the condenser and tested both the condenser that I took off and the new one I put on and both checked out but still no spark. I swapped out ignition coils and those are all working fine as well. Swapped out plugs and those are all in working order as well. So I’m 99% sure I’ve narrowed it down to the actual contact point. There were a couple times we’re an initial spark did occur on the plug but then no sparks following that. I cleaned the ignition contact points and took a little sand paper to them. It seems like something is shorting out? I’m not sure what the problem is….does any one have any thoughts on this? Should I just buy a new contact point?
I’ve included a video and photo too incase that helps!
Thanks everyone!! Turns out taking on a non-running Craigslist bike was more work than I thought…why didn’t you guys tell me??
![Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Vehicle brake Bicycle part]()
Oh maybe I can’t post a video?? It’s the point that the gray wire goes to
I’m running into a problem though and that’s with the third spark plug. There’s no spark at the plug and no visible spark at the points ignition. I replaced the condenser and tested both the condenser that I took off and the new one I put on and both checked out but still no spark. I swapped out ignition coils and those are all working fine as well. Swapped out plugs and those are all in working order as well. So I’m 99% sure I’ve narrowed it down to the actual contact point. There were a couple times we’re an initial spark did occur on the plug but then no sparks following that. I cleaned the ignition contact points and took a little sand paper to them. It seems like something is shorting out? I’m not sure what the problem is….does any one have any thoughts on this? Should I just buy a new contact point?
I’ve included a video and photo too incase that helps!
Thanks everyone!! Turns out taking on a non-running Craigslist bike was more work than I thought…why didn’t you guys tell me??
Oh maybe I can’t post a video?? It’s the point that the gray wire goes to
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653 Posts
Why not save the hassle of points and convert it to a pointless/electronic ignition?
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9,223 Posts
All of your points look worn out, the phenolic pad that rides against the cam should not be that worn down and that's why all your points are adjusted almost to the adjustment limit. The wire that goes to the condenser must be isolated from ground all the way from the points spring to the condenser and from here that does not appear to be the case. One of the 3 screws that holds the timing plate in place is sheared off or missing and that will be a problem, you need to fix that.
Assuming you have to work with only what we see here, you can interchange 2 sets of the points and condensers because they are the same and that might prove useful for troubleshooting the faulty components.
The 2 small felt pads the rub up against the cam are suppose to be there to lubricate the cam face, when they get all dirty and frayed out like that there is the possibility that it will short out your points, don't let them touch the points anywhere.
Assuming you have to work with only what we see here, you can interchange 2 sets of the points and condensers because they are the same and that might prove useful for troubleshooting the faulty components.
The 2 small felt pads the rub up against the cam are suppose to be there to lubricate the cam face, when they get all dirty and frayed out like that there is the possibility that it will short out your points, don't let them touch the points anywhere.
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9,223 Posts
Thirty bucks on flea bay, this is what points should look like:
![]()
Conversion to pointless electronic ignition will cost you somewhere around 300$ to 500$
Conversion to pointless electronic ignition will cost you somewhere around 300$ to 500$
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185 Posts
3 sets of points! What was this thing I want to make sure I never get one.
Whats with the weld/solder marks near the contacts?
Weld a nut on that broken screw and pull it and replace.
You probably want to get the correct screw driver tips + an impact screw driver to remove screws without destroying them.
With the correct tool you just insert the correct tip, set the driver in place twist to the stop and give a lite sharp tap and "BOOM" the screws are loose and still look new. This works on hex heads also. If you find you make the things too tight yourself spend the $$ on torque screw drivers. Also dont touch a motorcycle without the proper torque wrenches.
Anyone on here ever do an idiots guide to a basic tool kit for motorcycle mechanics?
Whats with the weld/solder marks near the contacts?
Weld a nut on that broken screw and pull it and replace.
You probably want to get the correct screw driver tips + an impact screw driver to remove screws without destroying them.
With the correct tool you just insert the correct tip, set the driver in place twist to the stop and give a lite sharp tap and "BOOM" the screws are loose and still look new. This works on hex heads also. If you find you make the things too tight yourself spend the $$ on torque screw drivers. Also dont touch a motorcycle without the proper torque wrenches.
Anyone on here ever do an idiots guide to a basic tool kit for motorcycle mechanics?
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9,223 Posts
Almost everything in there looks like it has been mutilated.
If the only set of points that are failing are the ones with the grey wire, remove the felt pad wiper completely, that might even fix the problem and that pad isn't doing you any good anyway.
If the only set of points that are failing are the ones with the grey wire, remove the felt pad wiper completely, that might even fix the problem and that pad isn't doing you any good anyway.
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