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Discussion Starter #1
Just found this forum tonite while Googlin' for parts.

I've been riding for about 5 or 6 years I guess, and still proudly own my first bike (though she's a little torn apart at the moment): a stripped-down CB350 back-alley-bomber with rear sets, clubman bars, bump-stop seat, 2-1 Hookers, 28mm Mikunis and a good ol' Hap Jones lung transplant. Best damn bike I've ever ridden....

Just this week I picked up a swamped '68 CB160 and I intend on goin'a-racing. I've got some friends who race ahrma and I'm sick of sitting around all winter watching them have all the fun pissing away $$$ trying to make 30hp.

On that note, I'm just getting started collecting parts (and I probably should search before I ask) but what's your opinion on going with the CB450 front end? That wee-little 160 brake hub doesn't look like it'll do much of anything and the forks are shot. Water Buffalo? Dream on. T500? I hear they're prone to cracking. Any other junkyard options? How well does the 450 triple tree mate up?





Honda go sideways!
 

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Welcome!

You'll find a lot of CB350 fans here if you need help.

In regards to the brake question, look in the Technical forum. There have been many conversations surrounding these specific brakes and which is best. jbranson is our resident drum brake guru and has tons of good info.

JD
 

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Discussion Starter #3
In regards to the brake question, look in the Technical forum. There have been many conversations surrounding these specific brakes and which is best. jbranson is our resident drum brake guru and has tons of good info.

JD


Sweet. Thanks.

Honda go sideways!
 

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Krap...hehe,

Actually the CB160 is a pretty good little brake when it's tuned up a bit. Same size as the CB350...but a better design. It's 180mm not a bad size at all. Probably the best choice is the Honda 305/450 brakes, 200mm good design. I use a T500...I have a couple of them, while none has cracked they are a bit flexible...a fine brake for a small bike like a 160 but still a bit of overkill.
The GT750...totally unnecessary..would probably actually give you slower laps times...you won't use nearly all it has to offer and you'd be carrying and extra 12 lbs of weight.

The CB160 with a good set of arc'd shoes, something like Vesrah...or even race compound will provide plenty of brake except for heavier riders. If you are 160 lbs or less and the bike is down below 250 lbs then it would be fine. If you are bigger and the bike is heavier you'll want one of the 200mm brakes. Honda 305/450, T500, Yam 650, Kawi 500 etc.
JohnnyB
 

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quote:
Krap...hehe,

Actually the CB160 is a pretty good little brake when it's tuned up a bit. Same size as the CB350...but a better design. It's 180mm not a bad size at all. Probably the best choice is the Honda 305/450 brakes, 200mm good design. I use a T500...I have a couple of them, while none has cracked they are a bit flexible...a fine brake for a small bike like a 160 but still a bit of overkill.
The GT750...totally unnecessary..would probably actually give you slower laps times...you won't use nearly all it has to offer and you'd be carrying and extra 12 lbs of weight.

The CB160 with a good set of arc'd shoes, something like Vesrah...or even race compound will provide plenty of brake except for heavier riders. If you are 160 lbs or less and the bike is down below 250 lbs then it would be fine. If you are bigger and the bike is heavier you'll want one of the 200mm brakes. Honda 305/450, T500, Yam 650, Kawi 500 etc.
JohnnyB

I have to agree with branson on this the GT750/550 4LS brake is overkill on any bike smaller then a 500cc two stroke or a 750 4 stroke. If you are campaigning a norton or triumph 750/650 those are heavy bikes and their stock brakes were barely adiquate for their girth, a GT750 drum is just a poor mans girling or grimeca and more up to slowing those race bikes where a drum brake is required for the class, same thing with a kawi triple or any other heavy two stroke where a drum brake is required.

Putting a gt750 brake on a small bike like a cb350 or 450 is not only adding unnecessary weight but also a coverup for sloppy riding technique and improperly used can do more harm than good.

I have observed in vintage racing that there is this subtle mentality that guys need a drum brake even when not required to really get the expirence of vintage or should be running one just because everybody else has one. So there are bikes that can run a disc in their class running a drum (like cb450s). For the best weight savings disc will always beat drum, and the stopping power is more controlable even if there is less overall brake force. I believe where you can run a disc in your class you should and just focus on improving your riding technique.
 

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I don't know, I've seen some guys running 350 supervintage with close to 60hp that can use a GT750 brake...or better yet a disk.

Out of curiousity, can you give an example how too much brake covers up for sloppy technique? I'm of the belief that there is no such thing as too much brake if brake weight is not a penalty. If you can carry the rear wheel into a turn then you are mostly likely going to outbrake the guy next to you....I don't see a down side. Now overusing a powerful brake just slows you down...or over using any brake for that matter, but that's not covering up sloppy technique...that's just adding to it.
Granted a powerful brake might help some people compensate for less than proper turn entry, or help some people that have the hp to blast down the straight and then back everyone up coming into a corner.....ok...I guess I do see your point :)
JohnnyB
 

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i don't know. for cheap money i ended up with my waterbuffalo drum setup. it is alot of brake... fuck it . i like it.


you know what they say.. big brake... big ____!!

matt
 

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quote:
i don't know. for cheap money i ended up with my waterbuffalo drum setup. it is alot of brake... fuck it . i like it.


you know what they say.. big brake... big ____!!

matt
I think it's the same thing as saying, big feet.....big shoes

JD
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Same size as my 350, huh? Hooooey do those 350 brakes fade though. I put a decent set of Ferrodo's on there, they may just be glazed.

Everything's in storage right now. Stupid winter, stupid apartment living. I'll check it out this weekend when I get over this damned flu and can get to the garage without hacking up 13 lbs. of lung butter the second I step out into the cold.

Thanks for all the advice.








Honda go sideways!
 

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quote:

Out of curiousity, can you give an example how too much brake covers up for sloppy technique? I'm of the belief that there is no such thing as too much brake if brake weight is not a penalty. If you can carry the rear wheel into a turn then you are mostly likely going to outbrake the guy next to you....I don't see a down side. Now overusing a powerful brake just slows you down...or over using any brake for that matter, but that's not covering up sloppy technique...that's just adding to it.
Granted a powerful brake might help some people compensate for less than proper turn entry, or help some people that have the hp to blast down the straight and then back everyone up coming into a corner.....ok...I guess I do see your point :)
JohnnyB
Johnny,

When I followed car roadracing and motorcycle Time Trials, I noticed a funny behavior when guys upgraded their brakes - say you had this gy who had a sloppy line and ended up braking later in the turn than he should have, he would always blame the brakes as not being adiquate and begin the upgrade when the real cluprit was a sloppy line. Basically he was distracted by his inability to slow the vehicle to realize that his line was off, so rather than improve his line he would just try to stop better. I agree, the best brake possible when weight is not a penalty but brakes should not be the primary focus of setting up for a corner entry.

"Granted a powerful brake might help some people compensate for less than proper turn entry, or help some people that have the hp to blast down the straight and then back everyone up coming into a corner" this was really my main point in the comment but also that most people focus too much on braking power and not enough on suspension balance and proper line, it is an easy scape goat.
 

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Well....I'd say for 90% of the people out there a better brake is just that...a better brake, allows you to brake later and harder. Since you should have your braking done in most cases BEFORE you turn in your line through the corner shouldn't be affected by your brakes. The proper line determines your turn in point, the effectiveness of brake determines your braking point.

I just don't see much opportunity for a good brake to allow riding any sloppier than a bad brake...a rider typically has a set tolerance for corner speed and they will slow down to that point regardless of braking power...they will start braking sooner with a poor brake, later with a good brake. Either way then end up in the same ball park of corner speed because that's their limiting factor.

A good brake will allow someone to get themselves out of trouble if they consistantly follow the wrong entry line into a corner...but that's by no means the fault of the brake...it's the fault of the rider. You don't remove a good brake to cure a bad habit...you just have them work on the bad habit. A better brake in my opinion is ALWAYS a plus...now whether the rider can use it or not is a whole seperate issue. All things considered I'd still rather see a crappy rider with a good brake than a crappy rider with a bad brake.
JohnnyB
 

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HEY WAIT A MINUTE!!!! shouldnt you nic be KrapScratchFever
and I have to agree with geetoo ,there are alot of sloppy porsche carerra drivers( tons here in Fl) with those massive Brembo brakes and very sloppy driving.. rich bastards!!!!!



Edited by - LiLBull on Feb 25 2006 10:44:03 AM
 
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