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After three weeks at a dealership and briefly riding every bike in stock, I've come up with a few observations, some of which a few of you might already know.

1) The fuel injection works great. Bikes start right up and can be ridden away without coughs or hesitation.

2) Putting one into first gear feels like you're crushing gravel with a large hammer. Neutral can be very difficult to find.

3) The smallest bike, the 883 Sportster, is far slower than any 700cc metric bike, possibly due to power efficiency loses from the heavily vibrating engine.

4) The XR1200, based on their flat track racers, is the only</u> bike I would own. The engine is actually pretty smooth and the brakes are great.

5) Harleys are the absolutely heaviest bikes I've ever ridden. Yesterday I pushed around a Gold Wing (trade-in) and it was lighter than most Harley mid-sized models.

6) Aside from the fuel injection, Harleys are the most primitive motorcycles on the planet. Maybe the Ural knockoffs are worse, but I doubt it.

7) If automobiles had evolved as slowly as Harleys, we would still be driving a Model T.

There you go.
 

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totally agree with everything acemom says, absolutely useless nunb fucker of a motorcycle, to get them to move and stop you need to spend more money , a stock harley is something that shouldve been in the line up of wacky races cartoon.
 

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totally agree with everything acemom says, absolutely useless nunb fucker of a motorcycle, to get them to move and stop you need to spend more money , a stock harley is something that shouldve been in the line up of wacky races cartoon.
 

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Ace, have they showed you the back room where they sell the accessories for big twins? The disk plow, thresher and combine are big sellers.
 

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Ace, have they showed you the back room where they sell the accessories for big twins? The disk plow, thresher and combine are big sellers.
 

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I am just going to tag up with a few of my own observations.

1) fuel injection works great now. Back in the 1990s the old closed loop FI without an O2 sensor was terrible. Even though terrible it still started and idled fine and pulled away without issue. What made it really bad was you couldn't mod the bike with anything (not even an aircleaner) because there was no way to retune the computer. None of the brand new stock carb ones worked badly either. I took an 2002 screaming eagle carb out of the box and put it on my ironhead and that bike starts and runs perfectly fine. The only time you get hard starting Harleys is when you get owners who fuck with them that have no idea what they are doing, which is 85 percent of the owners.

2) I remember a while back reading that that gear shift feel is by design. There are some year Harley's that shift better than others but part of the "experience" of riding a Harley is this feeling that you are operating a substantial and heavy machine. A shift like a new R1 would take away from that. I have to say, some of the old jap bikes feel the same way, you can't be pussy footed with a SOHC 750 unless you like the sound of gears crashing.

3) the 883 isn't slower than the Honda RS750. It may be slower than the v7 classic but not by much. Still faster than a Honda fit. It is also HD's most bullet proof bike since they started with a 1200 sporty and detuned it. The cylinder liners alone are like an inch thick. The problem with an 883 is they didn't make it lighter.

4) the XR1200 is an amazing bike. Meant to be a stop gap, it is as close as HD can get to building a buell without Erik Buell. It was designed for the euro market and was never intended to be sold here.....which oddly makes it better.

5) the feeling of heft is a function of a lot of things. They aren't actually heavier than other comparable motorcycles but very little attention is paid to balance. I have no idea why this is, my best guess is that it is a function of rake, trail, and wheelbase and is that way because HD has a longer stretched out look. My Ironhead feels lighter than new 1200 sportsters, it isn't, but it feels that way.

6) primitive is not necessarily a bad thing. How primitive do you think other bikes are? What if I told you the Ducati 2 valve air cooled motor was actually older in design than the current HD? How primitive is an R series airhead Beemer? The modern Guzzi small block has its roots in the small block of the mid 1970s to the point there are interchangeable parts between a v50 Monza and a v7 classic. The nice part about primitive is that you aren't trying to keep ahead of the engineers when you want to modify one. You can still make reliable power in a home workshop with one, something that is a lot harder with a modern CBR. I'll go one further, I think you can reverse the cylinder head on a Harley at home and the only thing you would need to farm out or machine is the cam (and there are work arounds for that as well. The biggest bitch motorcycle people have about HD is this prevailing notion that the premium pad should translate to R and D and high tech engine workings, but as the v-rod has proven HD's core customers are both morons and don't value high tech in their bikes.

7) some automobiles do evolve as slow as Harleys. The VW beetle was made from the late 1950s to 2002 without significant change. Porsche 911 had a good 30 year run. What about the panther platform fords? 20 years? Chevy k series pickups? 17 years? What about the K car platform? Designed in the late 70s and was still underpinning minivans into the 2000s. When something works the corp ideal is not to fuck with it. The thing that pisses me off about the motor company is they will go out of their way to keep a bad train rolling through bandaid fixes rather than just redesign and fix the problem. Also they don't revise the sportster nearly as much as they need to.

We are all performance bike people, so the HD market is always going to look weird to us. But let's not forget every once in a while HD shots out a diamond like the XR750, the v rod based destroyer, any buell ever made (yes even the s2 cyclone).
 

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I am just going to tag up with a few of my own observations.

1) fuel injection works great now. Back in the 1990s the old closed loop FI without an O2 sensor was terrible. Even though terrible it still started and idled fine and pulled away without issue. What made it really bad was you couldn't mod the bike with anything (not even an aircleaner) because there was no way to retune the computer. None of the brand new stock carb ones worked badly either. I took an 2002 screaming eagle carb out of the box and put it on my ironhead and that bike starts and runs perfectly fine. The only time you get hard starting Harleys is when you get owners who fuck with them that have no idea what they are doing, which is 85 percent of the owners.

2) I remember a while back reading that that gear shift feel is by design. There are some year Harley's that shift better than others but part of the "experience" of riding a Harley is this feeling that you are operating a substantial and heavy machine. A shift like a new R1 would take away from that. I have to say, some of the old jap bikes feel the same way, you can't be pussy footed with a SOHC 750 unless you like the sound of gears crashing.

3) the 883 isn't slower than the Honda RS750. It may be slower than the v7 classic but not by much. Still faster than a Honda fit. It is also HD's most bullet proof bike since they started with a 1200 sporty and detuned it. The cylinder liners alone are like an inch thick. The problem with an 883 is they didn't make it lighter.

4) the XR1200 is an amazing bike. Meant to be a stop gap, it is as close as HD can get to building a buell without Erik Buell. It was designed for the euro market and was never intended to be sold here.....which oddly makes it better.

5) the feeling of heft is a function of a lot of things. They aren't actually heavier than other comparable motorcycles but very little attention is paid to balance. I have no idea why this is, my best guess is that it is a function of rake, trail, and wheelbase and is that way because HD has a longer stretched out look. My Ironhead feels lighter than new 1200 sportsters, it isn't, but it feels that way.

6) primitive is not necessarily a bad thing. How primitive do you think other bikes are? What if I told you the Ducati 2 valve air cooled motor was actually older in design than the current HD? How primitive is an R series airhead Beemer? The modern Guzzi small block has its roots in the small block of the mid 1970s to the point there are interchangeable parts between a v50 Monza and a v7 classic. The nice part about primitive is that you aren't trying to keep ahead of the engineers when you want to modify one. You can still make reliable power in a home workshop with one, something that is a lot harder with a modern CBR. I'll go one further, I think you can reverse the cylinder head on a Harley at home and the only thing you would need to farm out or machine is the cam (and there are work arounds for that as well. The biggest bitch motorcycle people have about HD is this prevailing notion that the premium pad should translate to R and D and high tech engine workings, but as the v-rod has proven HD's core customers are both morons and don't value high tech in their bikes.

7) some automobiles do evolve as slow as Harleys. The VW beetle was made from the late 1950s to 2002 without significant change. Porsche 911 had a good 30 year run. What about the panther platform fords? 20 years? Chevy k series pickups? 17 years? What about the K car platform? Designed in the late 70s and was still underpinning minivans into the 2000s. When something works the corp ideal is not to fuck with it. The thing that pisses me off about the motor company is they will go out of their way to keep a bad train rolling through bandaid fixes rather than just redesign and fix the problem. Also they don't revise the sportster nearly as much as they need to.

We are all performance bike people, so the HD market is always going to look weird to us. But let's not forget every once in a while HD shots out a diamond like the XR750, the v rod based destroyer, any buell ever made (yes even the s2 cyclone).
 

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quote:Originally posted by kerosene

Buel Blast is a total piece of shit. Just wanted to get that out there and thus discredit your argument... :)
You think that because you are not a 5'2" tall woman who has never ridden a motorcycle before.

To be honest I kind of agree that the execution of the buell blast is completely unsupportable. however....in theory it sounds great.

The idea was to create a really inexpensive bike that was not intimidating to any rider, including women. It was suppsoed to be sold to schools cheap and also HD was going to run it's own new rider's program with the bikes (the rider's edge new rider program). Supposedly if you believe HD the blast helped 175,000 people get motorcycle licenses.

As such it had nice features that a regular motorcyclist would hate:

- bodywork was molded in color, not painted, so it couldn't be scratched. It also couldn't be touched up if gouged.

- electronic choke like a car. automatic. freaking nanny state bike if you ask me (kidding).

- self adjusting valves. Rob riders of the satisfaction of conquering the mysterious and daunting valve adjustmet.

- auto adjusting belt tensioner. because adjusting a chain is a bad habit to get into.

seriously though....someone at HD who wasn't erik buell, thought it was cheaper/better to just build half a sportster engine instead of outsource the engine to someone like rotax.

Is it sporty? no. Is it fast? fuck no. Is it good looking? meh. Does it have any quality a seasoned motorcyclist would find attractive? not in the least. Is it perfect for a new rider? absolutley!

Erik hated the blast so much he actually sold crushed ones as part of the line up after the model was cancelled. that's right, you could walk into a dealer and buy a blast crushed in a car crusher in any color they offered. awesome.

The final thing I can say about the blast is....with the number of 500cc and 650cc pushrod classes there are in LSR, it may just find it's niche yet. That is, if someone ever builds one.
 

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quote:Originally posted by kerosene

Buel Blast is a total piece of shit. Just wanted to get that out there and thus discredit your argument... :)
You think that because you are not a 5'2" tall woman who has never ridden a motorcycle before.

To be honest I kind of agree that the execution of the buell blast is completely unsupportable. however....in theory it sounds great.

The idea was to create a really inexpensive bike that was not intimidating to any rider, including women. It was suppsoed to be sold to schools cheap and also HD was going to run it's own new rider's program with the bikes (the rider's edge new rider program). Supposedly if you believe HD the blast helped 175,000 people get motorcycle licenses.

As such it had nice features that a regular motorcyclist would hate:

- bodywork was molded in color, not painted, so it couldn't be scratched. It also couldn't be touched up if gouged.

- electronic choke like a car. automatic. freaking nanny state bike if you ask me (kidding).

- self adjusting valves. Rob riders of the satisfaction of conquering the mysterious and daunting valve adjustmet.

- auto adjusting belt tensioner. because adjusting a chain is a bad habit to get into.

seriously though....someone at HD who wasn't erik buell, thought it was cheaper/better to just build half a sportster engine instead of outsource the engine to someone like rotax.

Is it sporty? no. Is it fast? fuck no. Is it good looking? meh. Does it have any quality a seasoned motorcyclist would find attractive? not in the least. Is it perfect for a new rider? absolutley!

Erik hated the blast so much he actually sold crushed ones as part of the line up after the model was cancelled. that's right, you could walk into a dealer and buy a blast crushed in a car crusher in any color they offered. awesome.

The final thing I can say about the blast is....with the number of 500cc and 650cc pushrod classes there are in LSR, it may just find it's niche yet. That is, if someone ever builds one.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Geeto67

Originally posted by kerosene



The final thing I can say about the blast is....with the number of 500cc and 650cc pushrod classes there are in LSR, it may just find it's niche yet. That is, if someone ever builds one.
500cc M/PG JDees performance 121.903 mph

50cc P/PP Len Jones 116.275 mph

500cc MPS/PF JDees performance 126.959 mph
 

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quote:Originally posted by Geeto67

Originally posted by kerosene



The final thing I can say about the blast is....with the number of 500cc and 650cc pushrod classes there are in LSR, it may just find it's niche yet. That is, if someone ever builds one.
500cc M/PG JDees performance 121.903 mph

50cc P/PP Len Jones 116.275 mph

500cc MPS/PF JDees performance 126.959 mph
 

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Geets, I actually poked around the idea of road racing a Blast at one time, turns out a few people have been fairly successful shoving Blast engines into modern XB frames for classes that have rules beneficial to single cylinder engines. (CCS, I'm looking at you...)
 

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Geets, I actually poked around the idea of road racing a Blast at one time, turns out a few people have been fairly successful shoving Blast engines into modern XB frames for classes that have rules beneficial to single cylinder engines. (CCS, I'm looking at you...)
 

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quote:Originally posted by Kurlon

Geets, I actually poked around the idea of road racing a Blast at one time, turns out a few people have been fairly successful shoving Blast engines into modern XB frames for classes that have rules beneficial to single cylinder engines. (CCS, I'm looking at you...)
C&J built a spec racing frame hoping the idea of a buell 500 single spec class....it failed with spectaular results, one of the reasons being it cost nearly $10K to build a competetive one.

Thanks, Hoof. I remember seeing a blast based LSR racer in one of your photos but couldn't find details and the records don't show what kind of bike.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Kurlon

Geets, I actually poked around the idea of road racing a Blast at one time, turns out a few people have been fairly successful shoving Blast engines into modern XB frames for classes that have rules beneficial to single cylinder engines. (CCS, I'm looking at you...)
C&J built a spec racing frame hoping the idea of a buell 500 single spec class....it failed with spectaular results, one of the reasons being it cost nearly $10K to build a competetive one.

Thanks, Hoof. I remember seeing a blast based LSR racer in one of your photos but couldn't find details and the records don't show what kind of bike.
 

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Modified is just that. You are allowed a certain amount of mods to a stock frame. Nothing spectacular. I never saw JDees Buell. So I can't comment on the mods. But they are limited. And Production is just that Production. NO external mods allowed except for removing mirrors and turn signals.
 
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