[RichieD]

Hi All my name is Rich and Im a shop/technology (depending on how old you are) teacher in upstate NY. Im starting a project with some of my kids here at school.They are at risk kids (kids who dont like to come to school)this project has gotten them to come to school and stay, also it has gotten some of them intristed in other topics like physics. It is cool but it is alot work!
I figured a cb350 twin would be a good start base. I fell in love with the sound and look when I used to go to Shannonville to watch the races in college. So here is the deal. I/we have a bunch of questions for you all but first ill tell you all what I have and we'll go from their. 71 cb, 32mm sudco new in box kit,electronic ignition the one Garry at Toad town racing sells, has never been installed, battery eliminator that's it for the engine for right now. The bike ran when I got it but the base gasket or head gasket leaks and weeps oil so it will be broken down, and when that happens I might as well replace parts while Im in their. so first question is sould I be looking for a 68/69 oem cam and rockers (we heard thoes cams were hotter than anything produced after that date or should I be looking for somthing from Megacycle? this buike will be used on the street but I think it should be fun. Next we have heard KZ 650 pistons will make the honda a true 350 but if im going to bore it do you all think we should go with a good hi-comp forged piston, and if so how big do you think we should go? keep in mind all that I have to pay for this project out of my pocket so I do have to watch my budget.If anyone has old/used parts they can part with we are intristed!
Now for the rest of the bike, we have fitted a 35mm xs650 front end with a disk set up. ankront knock off 17" rims front and rear,rear is laced to stock cb drum and front is laced to xs hub, Works shocks,clip-ons, fiberglass tank and tail piece. We have a stock cb fraim and swing arm, we have read that we need to weld up the spine of the frame and take off all the extra brackets we no longer need. Is their anything else you all would recomend? also how do you all feel about the SL frame? the one with 2 tubes comming down the front not the wishbone one. I have a line on one and it looks more sparce so I think it would look cooler (more like a featherbed) but I would hate to have a worse frame.
If any one has any ideas or wants to give us your $.02 that would be great. my kisd are going to be watching this site for all the info.
So thanks in advance to all
The kids are pumped to do this project!



Edited by - richied on Sep 27 2006 1:17:45 PM

 

[jbranson]

You CB350 racers help Rich out, I turned him on to this site and told him you guys would help.
JohnnyB

 

[RichieD]

Thanks Johnny!

 

[kenessex]

Hi Rich,
First off, I would suggest that you try and find a parts bike to go with what you already have you will need it. I am running a stock cam from a K0 and it definately has higher lift when you compare it side by side with a later model one. As far as pistons go I am running 1mm over stock pistons. The rest of the stuff you have should bolt right on. I would replace the cam chain while you have the engine apart and decide if you want the electric starter or not. If not then you can remove the starter clutch from the back of the flywheel and turn some of the aluminum off the back. You might want to consider some light porting or polishing of the head while you have it apart, but don't remove any material from thefloor of the prts. You can atleast smooth the intake ports to better match the diameter of the 32 mikunis.
The CL and CB frames are the same, the SL is the one with dual downtubes. I have heard that it is stronger. I am running a CL frame that has all the spotwelded seams have been welded over, the passenger footpeg brackets welded to the frame, they are the outboard swing arm mounts and will flex. Tubes have been added to brace the frame at the spine right above the rear motor mount to the rear frame tubes. I also have the swingarm lenthened 2 inches and braced with tubing. it is a very solid frame now.

I am a school administrator in Alaska, and we need a shop teacher for second semester. Interested? Our whole school could be considered at risk and we will have a brand new school then. Just kidding. Keep up the good work and I will help in any way I can, but I am not anywhere near my bikes right now and don't have too many pictures.

Ken


AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[aaron]

quote:
Hi All my name is Rich and Im a shop/technology (depending on how old you are) teacher in upstate NY. Im starting a project with some of my kids here at school.They are at risk kids (kids who dont like to come to school)this project has gotten them to come to school and stay, also it has gotten some of them intristed in other topics like physics. It is cool but it is alot work!
I figured a cb350 twin would be a good start base. I fell in love with the sound and look when I used to go to Shannonville to watch the races in college. So here is the deal. I/we have a bunch of questions for you all but first ill tell you all what I have and we'll go from their. 71 cb, 32mm sudco new in box kit,electronic ignition the one Garry at Toad town racing sells, has never been installed, battery eliminator that's it for the engine for right now. The bike ran when I got it but the base gasket or head gasket leaks and weeps oil so it will be broken down, and when that happens I might as well replace parts while Im in their. so first question is sould I be looking for a 68/69 oem cam and rockers (we heard thoes cams were hotter than anything produced after that date or should I be looking for somthing from Megacycle? this buike will be used on the street but I think it should be fun. Next we have heard KZ 650 pistons will make the honda a true 350 but if im going to bore it do you all think we should go with a good hi-comp forged piston, and if so how big do you think we should go? keep in mind all that I have to pay for this project out of my pocket so I do have to watch my budget.If anyone has old/used parts they can part with we are intristed!
Now for the rest of the bike, we have fitted a 35mm xs650 front end with a disk set up. ankront knock off 17" rims front and rear,rear is laced to stock cb drum and front is laced to xs hub, Works shocks,clip-ons, fiberglass tank and tail piece. We have a stock cb fraim and swing arm, we have read that we need to weld up the spine of the frame and take off all the extra brackets we no longer need. Is their anything else you all would recomend? also how do you all feel about the SL frame? the one with 2 tubes comming down the front not the wishbone one. I have a line on one and it looks more sparce so I think it would look cooler (more like a featherbed) but I would hate to have a worse frame.
If any one has any ideas or wants to give us your $.02 that would be great. my kisd are going to be watching this site for all the info.
So thanks in advance to all
The kids are pumped to do this project!



Edited by - richied on Sep 27 2006 1:17:45 PM

Hi Richie,
caferacer.net and nhf-racing.com will make a few donations to the bike. Let's talk and we'll make a list of things that I can help you with.

Thanks, Aaron

 

[JD]

Aaron, you stole the words right off of my keyboard. I just thinking as I read this that we should donate to the project. It's always inspiring to see someone take the time and effort to help out kids in need.

JD

 

[monkey]

yeah....what they said. let us know what parts ya need

matt

 

[ROSKO]

Rich, Welcome aboard! Projects sounds VERY cool. I taught a similar after school/ summer program for a few years (bicycles though). Check out the site: http://www.recycleabicycle.org/

The SL frame would make a great addition to your project. Looks cool, a bit lighter, and SYMETRICAL.

With RAB we used to solicit parts/ tools donations from bicycle companies... maybe you can do the same? A project like yours does make for some very positive press/ advertising.

Depending on your application brakes should be a serious issue also.

Good luck, keep us informed!


BORN TO LURK, FORCED TO WORK.

 

[kenessex]

Rich,
Don't forget you need to have an exhaust system too. Now would be a good time for Johnny B. to start making 350 exhaust systems. If he made a setup for all the rest of us tthat want 350 pipes we could split the cost for an extra set for you. What do you think Johnny? I am in for a set.

Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[jbranson]

Ken,
If I had enough call for them I could buy the necessary bending dies.
Whats the typical OD for CB350 headers? 1 3/8"? Off the top of my head I'd say the tightest bend I could make in that size would be about 5" radius. Should be suitable for an exhaust system. Most CB guys want 2 - 2 right? They are no real problem, not nearly as difficult as 2 - 1. At some point I'd also have to get a 350 to the shop for a few days for fitting.

Turns out I'm only about 20 minutes from Rich's house...so if he needs any fabrication or other assistance he can just stop off at my shop.
JohnnyB

 

[RichieD]

WOW! everyone thank you for the responses! I really want to thank Johnny for turning me on to you guys. Funny thing is I just found out Johnny only lives a few miles away from me. Small world.Now as for the exhaust Im going to try to build one with the kids, I just bought a megaphone and 2 into one Y along with some mandral bent dougnuts. I thought it would be cool to mock somthing up with them and see how they do. Rosko, I do a recycled bicycle thing also but I just get bikes from local bike shops and then the kids have to design and build purpous built bikes to do a task. last year we made lean bikes (I got the idea from my old "Green Machine" when I was a kid) dan that was great the kids loved it. I think it is awsome to watch kids go through the design process with a group of other kids, it's better than reality TV! every one else that has offered support I realy appreciate it and will take you up on it as soon as we get a laundry list. I just got off the phone with a guy who has an SL frame and a 68/69 cam he will trade me for a 71 front end so maybe the cam is all set. Now the cam chain and glide..... I saw the ine from KB? I think that was the company M3 was his site. Is that the hot set up or stock? As for the porting is their some guide lines for this motor, I've been explaining porting to the kids and the pro's and con's but the only porting I have done is on go-kart motors.. any help here would be great.
Thanks again
Rich

 

[736cafe]

rich,
i'm also a teacher of at risk students, but in chicago, so i really appreciate your effort. i have about 5 basket case motors, and a bunch of bits and bobs for the 350 laying around that you are welcome to. shoot me a list of the things that you are looking for when it comes time.

i would also reccommend that you go with the higher comp pistons rather than the kz pistons. depending on your budget you can get stuff on ebay, from henning racing, or team hansen honda. go with a 68/69 cam if you can find one. hope that helps

scott from chicago
ahrma #527

 

[krapfever]

Hey Rich,

I'm a shop teacher as well (wood shop, not small engine). I hear you when you say that this sort of class has a LOT of power to reach kids. If your district is anything like mine, shop/vocational ed as we knew it growing up is fast becoming extinct.

As far as the bike is concerned, I agree with Ken. Get a donor bike. While Honda blessed the 350 with a near bulletproof engine and tranny, quality of material in the body and electrics kind of suffered. Add 30+ years to the bike and you're gonna have some guaranteed weak spots.

1. Get a NOS (or Buff Harsh/Todd Henning trick replacement) cam chain tensioner. Yours will definitely be worn to a nub.

2. So, are you going with a "constant loss" charging system? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the electronic ignition setup you referred to. Is it a magneto style setup? In which case, very cool. If not, how will you power the lights w/out killing the battery?

3. Never heard the KZ650 trick, hmmm. Seems like you can get 1-3mm overbore kits seem readily available on ebay (ART are the best in my opinion--HAP Jones or Tucker Rocky kits will probably do fine for a street bike).

From one teacher to another, though, remember to keep it simple. Too many setbacks will kill a project. Kids, like anyone else, like to see results. It would be a damn shame to see 'em get discouraged because the whole thing has gotten bogged down in expenses, confusion or lack of time. It would be cool if you could get your hands on a non-running, not-too-swamped donor that the students could practice their tuning skills on and get to hear run from time to time (any old Jap bike would do, but I like 350's). Something like this would go a long way towards keeping their interest level high.

Also, does your district know you are doing this? If not, take a ton of pictures and show 'em! District officials LOVE photos of education at work. Doing so will give them all the more incentive to pat themselves on the back for supporting a strong, functioning program.

Put together a shopping list. I'll look around for anything I can donate.

Good luck!

Honda go sideways!

 

[jbranson]

Rich,
Good idea on the exhaust. It's a great way to demostrate design and fabrication. The purpose of an exhaust is obvious, the design is fairly simple and the fabrication uses basic skills...but skills that are some of the most common used in bike building and fabrication.

Most importantly...people dig exhaust systems. They'll get a kick out of making their own....I know I do

I've got metric hardware, stocks of many types and sizes of metal, specialized tools, so if you need something just yell.
JohnnyB

 

[Ditacchio]

Dang I wish I could be in your class!
So cool!
Post pics/info of your progress once you get it going and share what you are up to.
That way I can learn at the same time - I have a 71 CB350 along with half the people on this board

I am thinking about getting invloved with an At Risk group here in NY called LOVE
Leaveoutviolence-us.org
Did a charity ride for them on Sunday and its a pretty cool organization
But they do art - not bikes

 

[joe c]

gee, wow, i have tons of spares. looks like everythings been covered here. are you going to race this thing or street it??? or auction/sell it at the end. you could do a field trip and go do a track day on it with the kids in tow. imagine that! the sl frame is a cool frame but needs bracing for race apps. the nice thing is its symetrical. i can get you the details on my needle bearing swing arm conversion if youd like. they will need to be replaced. the sl swingarm on the cb frame is a hot setup. 1" longer. also, get the slipper cam chain tensioner. go to the eurospares.com cb350 faq page. theres some great info there for cb350 stuff. use the tsubaki cb750 cam chain as a replacement for the cam chain. the slipper will need some room made for it if you use it. weld all of the spot welded seams. and openings on the frame. you can brace from the spine to the down tubes at the shock lugs. you can fab up your own rearsets as a project. the k0 can is the hot one. but hard to find. megacycle does a swap out. but its expensive. like 400 i think. the k0 is not easy to find. also, the head breathes better, so an entire top end is what you want. youll need the followers, cam, and head for the best setup. do not use the cam without the followers. dont forget a clutch from barnett. you can get pretty good reliable power from a set of bigbore stock pistons, some porting work, bigger intake valve, the carbs you have, and a mild cam. at least enough power to scare yourself at will.

you definietly came to the right place for cb350 stuff. if theres anything i can help with, feel free to ask.


i have a tr25 sitting in my garage dave katzs kids did a few years back.

jc

 

[imslow]

i flunked shop in 1972.

birdhouse gone bad.

 

[notNicky888]

quote:
i flunked shop in 1972.

birdhouse gone bad.

Explains a lot.
L

 

[JD]

Richie,
How many kids are in the class and send an address. Or post it here, if people want to send something it might be helpful to have it here to refer to.

JD

 

[JAM614]

Field Trip to NHIS!
Seriously cool project.