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Discussion Starter #1
I have always had a thing for land speed racing and its on my bucket list of things to do.
But as like all of us the gears started turing in my head about what motor to use if i was to ever do it. Things like fitment in a class come to mind but mostly I was thinking about keeping the cost down and making it "easy" on myself.
LOVE the buddfab streamliner! I just like the idea of a streamliner from the engineering and challenge point of view rather then a XXXX bike converted to run.

So if you guys were going to build a small streamliner what power would you use and why?

Would you go with a simple small two stroke dirt bike engine or cbr1000rr engine?
 

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500cc blown mill. classes for that engine are almost open. sure it is setting the bar low but hey if you can do it go for it. you could triple threat it - mps and then streamliner using something like a blown ex500.
 

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First of all i wouldn't build a streamliner. You want to keep costs down and make it easy on yourself. That sentence and streamliner don't fit in the same sentence. The requirements for a streamliner are a lot. Full cage, sealed compartments, harness, fire suit, fire system, HANS, etc. You could build a couple of bikes for what the rider safety gear would cost. They are basically money buckets. The days of Burt Munro and a full streamlined shell around a sit on bike are long gone.

Why not think about the partial streamlining class? The rules have been relaxed so much over the past couple of years they aren't far away from full streamliners. Or better still. A sidecar. The SCTA rules on them is very short and the only rule they get excited about is the "unrestricted entry and exit" rule. After that you are pretty much free to do what you want (within the rules of course).

As to engines that would be up to you. A CBR 1000 in a streamliner would put you in the same class as Burt Munro who is the current record holder. For some peculiar reason that record is cursed or something. A number of people have tried to break it and have failed. usually to crashes. And thats not a joke. Ask Kent Riches of AirTech.

Personally I would go with a smaller engine for openers. If you have to build a 'liner build one with room for variation. The McLeish Bros. built a 'liner sidecar some years ago. They had planned to run various engines from 50cc to 1000cc. They hold records in a lot of classes right up to 1000cc (218+ mph)

I know it will probably stay on your bucket list as a lot of things do. Building a 'liner takes a major commitment not to mention a pile of cash. But if you are determined to go land speed racing start with something simple. If you find its your cup of tea, progress from there. It can be rewarding to know you have broken or set a world record. The SCTA clocks are as good as they get and their procedure for ensuring accuracy is beyond reproach.

As you probably know I've been doing the land speed thing for about 15 years now. I'm old and should be rockin' on the porch but it is so much fun to go to Bonneville and hang the throttle open for three miles and see if you put the engine together right. I don't go very fast but seeing how fast you can make what you got go is the main point. At each event you get a brass timing tag. It shows your top speed for the event. I save mine as soon all this will be a memory. Black ones are for participation (you didn't break a record). Red ones are when you break a record. You can see by the board how long it took me to get a red one. You got to be pig headed (or so stupid you don't know when to quit). Its not an easy row to hoe. Good luck with the idea. I hope it comes to fruition.

By weslake at 2012-02-22
 

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A P.S. to the above. The ECTA lost Maxton as is pretty much known. They found a new venue in Wilmington, Ohio. I just went to their site and they are limiting the entry to 175 which they have reached. If you are anywhere near there it would be worth taking a look. You'll get an idea as to how things work.
 

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what's the blue one for?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree that a 'liner isnt the most cost effective way of doing things but really liked the idea of one with a modular type engine section to run a bunch of different engines

After seeing what guys have been doing with small motors i cant see the need for a million liter monster.

Guess i didnt really understand that the 1000cc NA class was the same as "the fastest indian" must be cursed if its been this long with no one beating it.

Mostly my mind goes to liners for the freedom to build to a purpose.
Didnt know they lost maxon, heard about the racing up in lorins and would like to check it out.

Whats the blue tag?
 

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quote:Originally posted by Glenn5

what's the blue one for?
It's for breaking the sound barrier. I heard the sonic boom here in O.C., hundreds of miles away. Hoof is wanted in three states for all the windows he busted on that run.
 

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Should have said. The blue one is a World Finals at Bonneville. No record. Just a frustrating few days. I've never run BUB so I don't know what their rules for 'liners are but the SCTA has certain criteria you must build to. Its not a case, as has been said before "its my life I'll take the chance". Its the SCTA's ball and field so you play to their rules.

Go to scta-bni.org and have a look around. You can check out Bonneville records and see what you like. And see what speeds you would be up against. But if a 'liner is what you gotta have, good luck. Hope your bank account is more than healthy. Or better still you have a serious sponsor. It ain't going to be cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
yeah i do understand what you mean about building to a criteria and it being money....but a kid can dream....
Mostly was thinking that as i was involved in building two FSAE cars and starting on a baja but those rules are alot different..

Honestly I would LOVE to join the 200mph club but as with everything its easier said then done.

What do you run and what drew you to it?

Would one be better off with a small displacement single or is it all racing and all expensive.
not talking about a shoe string budget but something thats achievable on a personal finance level
 

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Different but similar subject when you approach cost. We figure $10,000 minimum for each 1 mph realistic gain in a offshore powerboat.
ed
 

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Discussion Starter #12
quote:Originally posted by TCed

Different but similar subject when you approach cost. We figure $10,000 minimum for each 1 mph realistic gain in a offshore powerboat.
ed
Yeah thats what the off shore guys always talked about that i worked around
Falcon racing had some HUGE $$$ cats and i couldnt imagine the money spent
 

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quote:Originally posted by jaguar

yeah i do understand what you mean about building to a criteria and it being money....but a kid can dream....
Mostly was thinking that as i was involved in building two FSAE cars and starting on a baja but those rules are alot different..

Honestly I would LOVE to join the 200mph club but as with everything its easier said then done.

What do you run and what drew you to it?

Would one be better off with a small displacement single or is it all racing and all expensive.
not talking about a shoe string budget but something thats achievable on a personal finance level
I run on a very frayed shoestring. I run a sidecar with an elderly 500cc Weslake engine. Its an old upright pushrod engine. I've always been a sidecar fan (blame my father).

Not knowing your set up but it sounds like you have access to the right equipment. If that is the case then you have a much better chance of achieving your dream. I work out of an overcrowded 1 1/2 car garage. And basically if I can't make it with an angle grinder it doesn't get made. I'll never make the 200 club but that's OK. I'm not in that financial league. My sidecar was built entirely in the garage and I reckon that I have maybe $2500 in it. It also has four records at Bonneville and two at El Mirage which makes for very cheap records.

For some perverse reason singles have been a draw for me. Maybe its because they are so simple and I like the challenge of seeing how fast I can make them go. Success has been slow in coming.

What engine to run? You mention the 200 club so that tends to rule out small displacement engines. But there are class records to look at that are under 200. For example, the 500cc pushrod partial streamlining record at Bonneville is 123+. Held by a CX500 turned 90 deg to be a chain drive. 123 is very beatable. My Norton/Weslake in the same class has run 129.917 at El Mirage. I've thought about going after that record but the sidecar takes up most of my time. Maybe next year.

Bonneville on a shoestring is about $2000. Entry, gas, class change, food etc. I have a 32 year old RV which serves as home there. But that figure is peanuts compared to what some guys spend there. Last year there was an Italian streamliner (car) that arrived in a 40 ft. container. Delivered to the salt. What did that cost?

If you want to go fast at a reasonable cost then a big displacement Jap four is the way to go. A 'Busa can go 200 with minimal mods. But as Jim Jensen (SCTA starter) snorts "Store bought horsepower". Its up to you to decide what you want to run and what your wallet will let you run.

By weslake at 2010-09-15
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would settle for geeto to have one finished project....dick...but just because you are a dick dosent mean you are not right...

Yeah i like the idea of a single too for the same simple/cheapish kinda reasons.

I find the buddfab guys amazing. 120ish on 50cc and 190ish with 125!
But i do know that just getting there is a huge step.

Like i said im more just spitballing then anything.
maybe we should be talking to the badger about those 500cc records too....lol
 

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I may be a dick with too many projects but at least I have always had 1 running bike. A buell one lung or an sr500 could get you there cheapish for a single, just add turbo. However the more cylinders the better VE you have . I can't think of many 4 cylinder 500s up to the task but there are plenty of twins. Personally a two stroke might be your best bet for high hp and simplicity.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Hoofhearted

quote:Originally posted by jaguar

yeah i do understand what you mean about building to a criteria and it being money....but a kid can dream....
Mostly was thinking that as i was involved in building two FSAE cars and starting on a baja but those rules are alot different..

Honestly I would LOVE to join the 200mph club but as with everything its easier said then done.

What do you run and what drew you to it?

Would one be better off with a small displacement single or is it all racing and all expensive.
not talking about a shoe string budget but something thats achievable on a personal finance level
I run on a very frayed shoestring. I run a sidecar with an elderly 500cc Weslake engine. Its an old upright pushrod engine. I've always been a sidecar fan (blame my father).

Not knowing your set up but it sounds like you have access to the right equipment. If that is the case then you have a much better chance of achieving your dream. I work out of an overcrowded 1 1/2 car garage. And basically if I can't make it with an angle grinder it doesn't get made. I'll never make the 200 club but that's OK. I'm not in that financial league. My sidecar was built entirely in the garage and I reckon that I have maybe $2500 in it. It also has four records at Bonneville and two at El Mirage which makes for very cheap records.

For some perverse reason singles have been a draw for me. Maybe its because they are so simple and I like the challenge of seeing how fast I can make them go. Success has been slow in coming.

What engine to run? You mention the 200 club so that tends to rule out small displacement engines. But there are class records to look at that are under 200. For example, the 500cc pushrod partial streamlining record at Bonneville is 123+. Held by a CX500 turned 90 deg to be a chain drive. 123 is very beatable. My Norton/Weslake in the same class has run 129.917 at El Mirage. I've thought about going after that record but the sidecar takes up most of my time. Maybe next year.

Bonneville on a shoestring is about $2000. Entry, gas, class change, food etc. I have a 32 year old RV which serves as home there. But that figure is peanuts compared to what some guys spend there. Last year there was an Italian streamliner (car) that arrived in a 40 ft. container. Delivered to the salt. What did that cost?

If you want to go fast at a reasonable cost then a big displacement Jap four is the way to go. A 'Busa can go 200 with minimal mods. But as Jim Jensen (SCTA starter) snorts "Store bought horsepower". Its up to you to decide what you want to run and what your wallet will let you run.

By weslake at 2010-09-15
I find you guys amazing! You run a format that seems unchanged since day 1 and there is a class for just about anything that's got a engine or motor. Probably one of the best examples of perseverance running the same vehicle for years and chasing records.
ed
 

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Discussion Starter #18
yeah a 500cc single two stroke would make more then enough power and not be "that bad" $/time wise

Turbo would be something down the line but sorting everything else first and actually running would be first.
SR500 is a nice place to start too. i kinda hate two strokes

How strong are the buels?
 

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I don't know if you have seen this Jag but heres a link to Buddfab on landracing.com A two stroke is simple and can be made fast but if you are thinking SpeedWeek with a 500 two stroke be forewarned that Scott Guthrie killed those records in the mid 80s with a TZ 500. A turbo'ed Buell would be cool. They can be made to fly (relatively speaking). JDees Performance has the M/PG record at 121.903 and the MPS/PF record at 126.959. These are two run averages over the same mile. Think you could make a Buell fly? Won't get in the 200 club with one but it would be cool to have the fastest in the class.
 

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The blast mill is literally 1/2 an Evo sportster motor so all the typical xl tricks work including supercharging. Big aftermarket on this one. The only downside is the blast frame. You could use an Evo sportster drag frame like I see for sale on eBay all the time. May not want a rigid though.
 
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