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had a kid and his dad look at a bike i had for sale...after a 15 min conversation.... i flat out refused to sell the bike to them...they left not so happy.....$$$ is not that important to me...conscious is.
 

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had a kid and his dad look at a bike i had for sale...after a 15 min conversation.... i flat out refused to sell the bike to them...they left not so happy.....$$$ is not that important to me...conscious is.
 

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Lots of emotion, some logic and whole lot more emotion.

Doing something you believe to be inappropriate because someone else would do it does not make it OK. That logic is just plain wrong. It's understandable, but it is not right.

And the logic of a nanny law stopping people from thinking is beyond me. So there is no law and that kid and his mom were thinking?

Laws are there to protect individuals and society in situations where people may be tempted to do things which are not in their best interests or those of others. There is always a balance to be drawn and it's not an easy one. Libertarians argue that we as individuals should have those choices and that as a society we should support each other. That's good but what if an individual wants to do something really dumb that will result in the rest of us paying higher insurance for example? At what point do we want lawmakers involved in our decisions?

There is no doubt in my mind that the "freedom" in the US to do really dumb things is not in anyone's interest. Market forces will continue to sell bikes until all the dumb kids are no longer riding and that won't happen any time soon. We all started out young and dumb and invincible and we made it this far, but bikes are faster than ever.

I grew up with the Uk and Australian laws and while they seem like a PIA, they are a good idea in principle. Nothing will stop 16 year olds from racing their Fizzies and making them go faster. No law makes us smarter, but it might make sure that there are a few less broken bikes and smashed bodies beside the highway.

Cory did what most people would do in this society. he tried to warn the kid and his mom who is probably working out who to sue and who to hold responsible for her own stupid decision. It's not his fault that our society is hung up on the word "Freedom" without spending much time to discuss what it means.

That mother had the "freedom" to buy a mechanical device for which her son was not qualified to operate. He had the "freedom" to buy that bike even though he wasn't ready for it. BTW what prepares any of us to ride a ZX14? I've been riding for decades and I'm not sure I have the experience or the reactions to ride one of those on the street - it's more capable than I am.

The real issue is that we use the word "freedom" as if it were an absolute we are entitled to. We are forgetting that every Right carries with it a Responsibility. Rights do not exist without matching responsibilities and it's time for us as a society to start talking about responsibilities.
 

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Lots of emotion, some logic and whole lot more emotion.

Doing something you believe to be inappropriate because someone else would do it does not make it OK. That logic is just plain wrong. It's understandable, but it is not right.

And the logic of a nanny law stopping people from thinking is beyond me. So there is no law and that kid and his mom were thinking?

Laws are there to protect individuals and society in situations where people may be tempted to do things which are not in their best interests or those of others. There is always a balance to be drawn and it's not an easy one. Libertarians argue that we as individuals should have those choices and that as a society we should support each other. That's good but what if an individual wants to do something really dumb that will result in the rest of us paying higher insurance for example? At what point do we want lawmakers involved in our decisions?

There is no doubt in my mind that the "freedom" in the US to do really dumb things is not in anyone's interest. Market forces will continue to sell bikes until all the dumb kids are no longer riding and that won't happen any time soon. We all started out young and dumb and invincible and we made it this far, but bikes are faster than ever.

I grew up with the Uk and Australian laws and while they seem like a PIA, they are a good idea in principle. Nothing will stop 16 year olds from racing their Fizzies and making them go faster. No law makes us smarter, but it might make sure that there are a few less broken bikes and smashed bodies beside the highway.

Cory did what most people would do in this society. he tried to warn the kid and his mom who is probably working out who to sue and who to hold responsible for her own stupid decision. It's not his fault that our society is hung up on the word "Freedom" without spending much time to discuss what it means.

That mother had the "freedom" to buy a mechanical device for which her son was not qualified to operate. He had the "freedom" to buy that bike even though he wasn't ready for it. BTW what prepares any of us to ride a ZX14? I've been riding for decades and I'm not sure I have the experience or the reactions to ride one of those on the street - it's more capable than I am.

The real issue is that we use the word "freedom" as if it were an absolute we are entitled to. We are forgetting that every Right carries with it a Responsibility. Rights do not exist without matching responsibilities and it's time for us as a society to start talking about responsibilities.
 

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Can't see how it's Corey's(or the/a dealership) responsibility to govern the buyers options.
 

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Can't see how it's Corey's(or the/a dealership) responsibility to govern the buyers options.
 

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My question is this. Do the tiered licensing laws actually prevent accidents and deaths from happening? I have not seen nor looked for any statistics or valid analyses of this. Logic would suggest that this would be the case, yet I have seen other similar instances where the correlation actually does not exist or is not causational.

In my opinion, having spent 15 years in the business, Corey did what was reasonable in suggesting that the bike was not appropriate, but beyond that, I would have sold the bike, too.

ken
 

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My question is this. Do the tiered licensing laws actually prevent accidents and deaths from happening? I have not seen nor looked for any statistics or valid analyses of this. Logic would suggest that this would be the case, yet I have seen other similar instances where the correlation actually does not exist or is not causational.

In my opinion, having spent 15 years in the business, Corey did what was reasonable in suggesting that the bike was not appropriate, but beyond that, I would have sold the bike, too.

ken
 

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Unga, Ken, Tex, Swag: where the hell did ya'll get your moral education? Whoever taught you guys that your moral responsibility stops at saying a few words? Is a young man's life that cheap to you?

quote:Originally posted by texmawby

all i can do is educate, but if the kid is determined to do it (in this case he was....), I am NEVER going to lose a sale to make a competing dealer stronger.
That says it all: a young man's life ranks lower in your value system than a few bucks in your pocket. Pathetic.

We're talking about a minor. A man ought to step up and protect minors whenver he can.

And don't give me some bullshit about his mom being there to take care of him. Since when does a man abdicate his responsibility to look out for others just because someone else is also there? A man ought to be looking out for women too.

So here's what it comes down to: how many people in your life are you supposed to look out for? How big is the circle of people that a man is obliged to protect? Answer: it depends on how big of a man you are.
 

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Unga, Ken, Tex, Swag: where the hell did ya'll get your moral education? Whoever taught you guys that your moral responsibility stops at saying a few words? Is a young man's life that cheap to you?

quote:Originally posted by texmawby

all i can do is educate, but if the kid is determined to do it (in this case he was....), I am NEVER going to lose a sale to make a competing dealer stronger.
That says it all: a young man's life ranks lower in your value system than a few bucks in your pocket. Pathetic.

We're talking about a minor. A man ought to step up and protect minors whenver he can.

And don't give me some bullshit about his mom being there to take care of him. Since when does a man abdicate his responsibility to look out for others just because someone else is also there? A man ought to be looking out for women too.

So here's what it comes down to: how many people in your life are you supposed to look out for? How big is the circle of people that a man is obliged to protect? Answer: it depends on how big of a man you are.
 
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