[LiLBull]

hey johnnyb I just won a 350 twin lead shoe brake set up with 18in wheel to replace my 450 19in disk set up .its for the looks of it all the price $29.oo guess its the best time of year to bid on brakes .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...bay.com:80/?from=R40&satitle=4611358437&fvi=1

 

[jbranson]

Lil,
That 350 brake is going to pretty much unsuitable for a 450 from the standpoint of braking power. Definately unsuitable for a race bike, borderline for the street.
The 450's used a 200mm drum...the 350's a 180mm drum.

I usually pay $30-50 for old brakes...even the 305/450 DLS. Not worth much more considering the fact that you need to have the drum turned, install new shoes and new bearings in most cases.

T500's will go for up to around $80, Waterbuffalos around $300, Yamaha 650's around $60.

If it's a street bike there's no way in hell I'd get rid of that disk. I hate drums...the only reason I work with them is that they are required in the classes I race.
JohnnyB

 

[texmawby]

nice score, that's like an hour from me. want me to go pick it up (lol)!

tex

 

[kenessex]

George,
I am gonna disagree with JB here, cause I just feel like being a little bitchy and want him to be really wrong just once in his life. (OK, he is probably right on this) But, I think the 350 brake will be just fine on the street for you. Especially if you take the time to set it up so it is working as well as it can. To start with, If it has usable shoes that are already mated to the drum, I wouldn't replace them or turn the drum. I have had really good success with sanding the shoe friction surface fairly agressivly and sanding the drum surface only to make sure that any crap is off it and you have two good surfaces. Then go through the usual stuff like lubing shafts, checking bearings and adjusting engagement. Give it a try and look for something even more trick for later. Cafe bikes are always a work in progress.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[LiLBull]

well then I guess Im just a little confused as a while back ago I was interested in a twin leading shoe brake you had mentioned that the 350 was larger in diameter and a good brake.Lets put it this way I just like the mechanical look of the twin leading shoe brake set up .It has to have more brake surface area then that little pad they call a disc brake on the cb 450 .Again unlike the rest of you Im not racing nor am I speed driving the thing .Im just enjoying the ride and look of the bike.But if your saying i misunderstood you a while back when I was looking into brakes then perhaps Ill sell it and get the bigger brakes I really want and they also are drum .Ill have to look back 250gpchamp had a set up for big brake laced with aluminum wheel which I had originally wanted and still do if he has it stil.
Well i thought I was getting a good shot at mechanical brake .I wasnt interested in that disc set up it has no looks and not much brake area and I rather turn brakes and refit shoes then getting the old hydraulics an over haul again for the look factor I got all my racing done years ago on vintage track and street cars ...I like my license...but I trust you if you say they are marginal Ill just look for the bigger set up I had originally wanted.
And I am not holding any thing against you Johnny b I guess I had miss understood Ill have to go back and look at the old posts to see what I thought you had said any way its only 30bucks I can hang it on the wall for that.

 

[kenessex]

George,
Even if you don't use that brake on your 450, You got it at a good price and you will be ble to use it for something else. Like I said, I would go ahead and mount it up on the 450 and give it a try. That way you can get the mounting and brake stay and cable set up if you decide to go for a bigger drum later.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[jbranson]

It's the 305/450 drums that are nice brakes and can be made quite powerful with tuning.
The CB350 brake is the same size as used on the CB160...if that helps put things in perspective.

Drum turning isn't always necessary...depends on the condition of the drum. But...not a chance in hell I'd ever ride a bike with a junk yard brake on it without replacing the shoes and bearings. Very rare to find an old brake with shoes that are not contaminated with oil. You can sand them down and they look great...until the first time they heat up good and the old oil cooks out of the friction material. Modern sealed bearings are a no brainer...unlike the old style bearings they do not contaminate the shoes with grease vapors and they are almost impervious to water.

The upside to the CB350....is you can get off the shelf Ferodo shoes for it. With Ferodo shoes, a healthy drum and carefully adjusted it might even feel like it's slowing you down from 70mph. The CB350 hub in general is just not a great brake. Pressed steel arms, no cast iron bores for the cams, no wrap around posts on the pivot side of the shoes. Sure...it's not going to kill you if you ride with some restraint....but it's not something I'd put on a cafe bike that was going to be ridden like a cafe bike.

But...you didn't get screwed...I'd pay $30 for one if I was in the market....I've got one here now. But if I was building a front wheel for a street cafe bike I'd be respoking and using an alloy rim too.

I'm a fanatic about break performance....it's a life saver.
JohnnyB

 

[n/a]

I've been using that same brake set up with ebc linings on my Ducati 250 racer for the past 12 years or so and its been good for me.
But then again I am slow like a turtle.

Champ

 

[kenessex]

I have been running a stock setup on my race 350 too. I have found it to be acceptable but not as good as I would like. I am going to try some new EBC shoes since they are readily available and I am really cheap. I suspect they will work better than the used stockers.They were great in the rain at Mid-Ohio last year where it was actually possible to have too much brake.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[jbranson]

Not to throw a blanket on you guys...fast or slow. But the T500 brake on my race bike will carry the rear wheel into T3. That's a brake....if your brake doesn't work like that it's costing you seconds.
Bottom line....going from the disk to the 350 drum will reduce your braking power and increase your stop time. No if ands or buts.
I'm just not into "acceptable" when it comes to brakes...race or street. But...of course one must use whatever makes one happy.
JohnnyB

 

[kenessex]

JohnnyB,
Of course you are right. More brakes is better brakes and I'm sure I could shave some seconds with better brakes. In fact if I keep running the 350 in vintage superbike I will go to a disc. But I could also shave time by not running a stock motor or carbs or I could loose a few pounds off my fat ass. Given that I will only be able to run 1 or 2 races a year for the next couple of years until we leave Alaska, adequate will have to do for now. I do miss the kind of brakes I had on my old Ascot with the double disc Interceptor front end on it. Talk about being able to carry the rear wheel!!!
Ken (used to be fast) Essex

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[texmawby]

bull,

drop me a line at: [email protected]

i know i never got back to you before on this brake issue, hell i just got back to eric on his brake issue.

my point is i have a 2ls 230mm grimeca laced to a borrani 18". the spokes will want to be changed out (cause they are grimey and you don't want that on the horse), but i think this will give you all the stopping power you need once you do like ken says and go over the shoes and drum.

i gotta warn you, it ain't cheap. but the good things rarely are.

tex

p.s.- j not that d, sorry man, i couldn't wait any longer to hear from you on this, so bulls got first right or refusal now.

eric, check your email. i sent you those 350 rear brake pics to [email protected] account.

 

[jbranson]

Now a Grimeca 230mm brake is a brake you can learn to love.

Heavy yes...but about as good a brake as you are gonna get without going to some super exotic ex-gp brake. Maybe a worked GT750 brake would work as well but you'd have $1000 into that front wheel by the time it was done.

One thing a lot of people don't consider when looking at larger heavier brakes is....it's not the backing plates that matter that much...it's the weight of the hub that rotates. A lot of the weight in big 4LS brakes is on the backing plates...and they don't rotate so they don't effect steering much. Yes the total weight of the brake can make front end setup a bit more touchy, but turn in is only really effected by the weight of the rotating hub section.
JohnnyB

 

[texmawby]

this brake laced in a borrani weighs 20.5lbs.

going, going, going......

tex

 

[LiLBull]

Hey tex check your email is this the one you got when you were working for those guys .

Sorry my construction job is killing my online time lol.But I still here ..tex check your email .


Edited by - LiLBull on Feb 15 2006 6:10:43 PM