[eviltwin]

does a cafe conversion make a motorcycle less stable?
for example.

i have a CL360, very similar to a CB350 twin.
I put clubman bars on it (yeah i know....they're gone now..bent to sh*t). i shifted my shifter back and had the back footpegs being "rear-sets". when doing this most of my weight is shifted over the back tire.
when riding, having your weight moved to this position on such a small bike, does it make it less stable or more likely to go down?

I hit a rock at 3mph at a stop sign the other day, and it locked up under my front tire and the bike immediately started to fall.
i tried to catch it, but i was by a construction zone and my feet slipped on all the damn dirt on the ground.

needless to say i was pissed. anyways, i never had that issue arise in a different riding position on my other bike (cx500). i am sure most of it is complete rider (dumba**) error due to me being inexperienced in this new position. but i have to wonder to.

opinions?
-brent

 

[LiLBull]

you need to be used to this position ,because loose sandy surface is a bikes worst enemy.I mean if you were confident and felt stable on it you would be ok .Just seems you were nervous in this new position.
A cx500 is a biker bike then your 360 as you know,but your cx hand air assisted forks and more weight and a position an up right position where most people feel more stable.more leverage at the handle bars and can get feet down to the ground faster.
Its more aero to use the cafe position and you can lay your self into the turn better then you ever could with a tradition seat position.
So its a more stable position once you get used to it and start to explore its benefits.
May be a good time to leaf thru some motorcycle race driving books.Now that you have a taste of both positions.You will learn quicker.

Im so far behind ,that I think Im in first.

 

[FR]

quote:
does a cafe conversion make a motorcycle less stable?
for example.

i have a CL360, very similar to a CB350 twin.
I put clubman bars on it (yeah i know....they're gone now..bent to sh*t). i shifted my shifter back and had the back footpegs being "rear-sets". when doing this most of my weight is shifted over the back tire.
when riding, having your weight moved to this position on such a small bike, does it make it less stable or more likely to go down?

I hit a rock at 3mph at a stop sign the other day, and it locked up under my front tire and the bike immediately started to fall.
i tried to catch it, but i was by a construction zone and my feet slipped on all the damn dirt on the ground.

needless to say i was pissed. anyways, i never had that issue arise in a different riding position on my other bike (cx500). i am sure most of it is complete rider (dumba**) error due to me being inexperienced in this new position. but i have to wonder to.

opinions?
-brent

When you change the weight distribution of the bike, it does affect the stability to a certain extent. I think that what you experienced had more to do with the lack of leverage with your clubmans vs the stock handlebars, which are much wider and therefore require a different amount of movement to make steering corrections, particularly at low speeds. This is hard to get used to, and isn't exactly intuitive.
Bull is right, the riding position makes it harder to react at low speed because more of your weight is on your hands. You do get used to it, or so I've heard.

FR

 

[parks61]

"does it make it less stable or more likely to go down?" just like the nra says (kinda) bikes don't gp down, people do. (it all depends on whom...) just kidding. any new position is less stable than one that you're accustomed to. weight bias doesn't have much to do with stability at 3mph, going straight. it has a lot to do with stability at speed. ideal is about 50/50 (look at new bikes). older bikes make it tough with the "cafe position" and end up yielding a rear bias. that being said. you can go really fast with comfort (stability) on an old bike in the "cafe position" just by being used to the position as long as you have a good relationship with the controls....not too bunched up, and not too stretched. the bias deal will only really come bite you if you're riding at the limit of the bike (stupid on the street) or at the tlimit of your abilities (even stupider on the street). most small (250/350) vintage race bikes have the less than the ideal 50/50 f/r weight distribution with a lot of weight (rider's ass) over the rear wheel due to the short wheel base inherent in the typical frame designs. modern (gp) race bikes have FRONT bias due to the ridiculous amount of available power (so they don't wheelie too much out of corners) and so they turn in to corners with maximum front end bite. just s few thoughts
parks

 

[parks61]

and a few typos too. sorry...i get too excited.
parks

 

[texmawby]

parks,

your fingers got fat this winter. you might need to buy bigger gloves.

texy

 

[parks61]

my belly too...hope i fit into my leathers.
parks

 

[jbranson]

These guys are all right. I remember the first time I got on my vintage race bike with the clip-ons and rear-sets and seat moved back and all...I was thinking man this thing seems twitchy to me. Well...it was twitchy...or in other words handled quickly and precisely. The short bars have a lot to do with it...lot less leverage on the front end, and a lot less movement to create movement in the front.
After riding my old vintage race bike I'll get on my 2000 RC51 and it feels like a slow handling pig.
Cafe style or vintage race bike...requires confident, controlled input..the reward is typically quicker handling and a bike more apt to pushing it's limits.
JohnnyB

 

[eviltwin]

cool. thanks for the advice.
i will get some books and
go back out to the parking lots
and start re-learning how to ride.
-brent

 

[Geeto67]

quote:

I hit a rock at 3mph at a stop sign the other day, and it locked up under my front tire and the bike immediately started to fall.
i tried to catch it, but i was by a construction zone and my feet slipped on all the damn dirt on the ground.

This scenario will pretty much cause a majority of the riders to go down no matter what you do. The same thing happened to my father on his harley and he went down too, and that bike doesn't have low bars, rearsets, or a bubble back.

 

[jbranson]

My wife did the same thing about three years ago...rock about 1", wheel locked up, down she went (2000 Suz SV650)

JohnnyB

 

[teighlor]

yeah, happens when yer on a skateboard too......got some chipped teeth from that...

 

[parks61]

no more talk about going down. don't like the imagery.
parks

 

[Geeto67]

quote:
no more talk about going down. don't like the imagery.
parks

really, I love it when people go down......
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
......on me

 

[joe c]

there is a section of rt 40 that passes my shop. i take it everyday. there is one part of it that has 2 lights about 150' apart cresting a slight incline. i was sitting on my bike in traffic one morning on the way in and the first of the 2 lights had turned red. there were about 5 cars in front of me stopped. the light went green, as did the second one, they are synched, and traffic took off. as did i. what i didnt know because i was tucked up behind all the traffic going forward was that there was a truck at some point earlier that morning carrying a load of old bricks. im guessing that when the truck left the 1st light and took off up the small hill, the load shifted and it dumped a bunch of old broken bricks out. maybe 20 or so. they were scattered all over my lane. i rolled off, managed to avoid all but one. i ended up jumping it at about 20 mph. both wheels off the ground. i thought for sure i was going down. it tank slapped, i held on and rode out of it. but jb, i swear it was like that endurance race where i hit the curb in 3 and you had to pick my bike up. thats how violent it felt. i was lucky there was no one behind me. those bars are great at speed on a smooth road, but anywhere else clubmans, or clip ons or anything like that suck. i was really lucky. it would have been a messy lowspeed crash in the middle of a very busy road. wider bars would have definitely helped alot. there are still bricks lying on the median strip from that day and its been almost a year.



jc


aaron, send my wheel.

 

[KeninIowa]

My 550 is way better around town than my GSXR, even with clubmans. If I wanted to be more practical with my 550 I'd either put drag bars on it or clubmans with less end drop. My nephew rides it some he's enough taller than me that the clubmans don't bother him at all. I still have the stock pegs on it. I've been visualizing rearsets since I'll have to make my own. I'm looking to move them about 2" up and back. I think the bikes I see using the passenger peg locations for rearsets would be terrible to ride at anything slower than highway speeds.

04 KDX 200
05 KX 250f- SOLD!
01 GSXR 750
75 GT 550
68 Chevelle

 

[LiLBull]

I haven't fitted one yet, but does the front end stabiliser help or hinder this feeling,

Im so far behind ,that I think Im in first.

 

[LiLBull]

I haven't fitted one yet, but does the front end stabiliser help or hinder this feeling,

Im so far behind ,that I think Im in first.

 

[KeninIowa]

Depends what you mean. I can feel myself fighting the damper on my GSXR at super slow speeds, so there it hurts. If you're talking about taking the twitchyness out at higher speeds they help. The one on my RZ had a knob you could control the damping. I'd turn it basically off around town, then clear up if I was gonna corner bash.

04 KDX 200
05 KX 250f- SOLD!
01 GSXR 750
75 GT 550
68 Chevelle

 

[LiLBull]

thats what I would think low speed fight and high speed help,and the old school ones its none adjustable,I know modern bikes are.

Im so far behind ,that I think Im in first.