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Hi guys,

I'm looking for any feedback about my current battery issue.

I've been riding my 1981 Suzuki GS450E in the last 2 months without any issue with the battery, but In the last seven days, I've melted two of my Antigravity Lithium AG-401 batteries.
My speedometer would shut-off first, then the engine, and follow with smoke coming out of the battery. Good thing that both batteries never catches on fire, but I'm afraid that I won't be so lucky next time.

All parts seem to be working just fine after the first incident, but now I'm thinking that perhaps the Voltage regulator is bad. After melting two lithium batteries in just a week, I'm thinking about installing an acid gel battery. Any of you guys using acid gel battery?
Any feedback is appreciated - Thanks guys!

Here is my current electrical set up under my seat - the original builder set it up.

103786
103785
 

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Hi guys,

I'm looking for any feedback about my current battery issue.

I've been riding my 1981 Suzuki GS450E in the last 2 months without any issue with the battery, but In the last seven days, I've melted two of my Antigravity Lithium AG-401 batteries.
My speedometer would shut-off first, then the engine, and follow with smoke coming out of the battery. Good thing that both batteries never catches on fire, but I'm afraid that I won't be so lucky next time.

All parts seem to be working just fine after the first incident, but now I'm thinking that perhaps the Voltage regulator is bad. After melting two lithium batteries in just a week, I'm thinking about installing an acid gel battery. Any of you guys using acid gel battery?
Any feedback is appreciated - Thanks guys!

Here is my current electrical set up under my seat - the original builder set it up.

View attachment 103786 View attachment 103785
Hi guys,

I'm looking for any feedback about my current battery issue.

I've been riding my 1981 Suzuki GS450E in the last 2 months without any issue with the battery, but In the last seven days, I've melted two of my Antigravity Lithium AG-401 batteries.
My speedometer would shut-off first, then the engine, and follow with smoke coming out of the battery. Good thing that both batteries never catches on fire, but I'm afraid that I won't be so lucky next time.

All parts seem to be working just fine after the first incident, but now I'm thinking that perhaps the Voltage regulator is bad. After melting two lithium batteries in just a week, I'm thinking about installing an acid gel battery. Any of you guys using acid gel battery?
Any feedback is appreciated - Thanks guys!

Here is my current electrical set up under my seat - the original builder set it up.

View attachment 103786 View attachment 103785
Hello Mate, Have you checked to see what kind of out put you are getting thru the Voltage regulator ? I have been using Lithium batteries for all my motorbikes and that's both my street scratchers and the race bikes. Never had problem one on any front. This remember is with all of them on proper chargers when they sit for any time at all.
 

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Hi guys,

I'm looking for any feedback about my current battery issue.

I've been riding my 1981 Suzuki GS450E in the last 2 months without any issue with the battery, but In the last seven days, I've melted two of my Antigravity Lithium AG-401 batteries.
My speedometer would shut-off first, then the engine, and follow with smoke coming out of the battery. Good thing that both batteries never catches on fire, but I'm afraid that I won't be so lucky next time.

All parts seem to be working just fine after the first incident, but now I'm thinking that perhaps the Voltage regulator is bad. After melting two lithium batteries in just a week, I'm thinking about installing an acid gel battery. Any of you guys using acid gel battery?
Any feedback is appreciated - Thanks guys!

Here is my current electrical set up under my seat - the original builder set it up.

View attachment 103786 View attachment 103785
Hello Mate, Have you checked to see what kind of out put you are getting thru the Voltage regulator ? I have been using Lithium batteries for all my motorbikes and that's both my street scratchers and the race bikes. Never had problem one on any front. This remember is with all of them on proper chargers when they sit for any time at all.
Sorry got called away. Can't see much wrong with the install except I can't tell if the regulator has a proper ground. Remember also that the regulator is the thing that controls how much voltage come from the charging system to the battery making sure that it's not too many volts and when the battery is up to proper volts it stop voltage from over charging. There are specs on how much voltage your alternator is making so you need to check that (I would think 13.5 > 14.5) if I recall those Suzukis (that age) did not have real great charging systems. We have a pair of 1982
GS1100E Classic Superbike racers and we've gone to a modern regulator.

Bottom line I'd not be blaming to batteries as the culprits. It's more likely they're the victims.
 

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Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a volt meter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteris is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
 

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1980's charging systems were never designed to accommodate lithium batteries, the technology was practically non-existent at that time. Lead acid battery is what it was designed for and lead acid batteries are relatively forgiving with the charging circuit being shall we say :/ marginal.

Your alternator puts out all kinds of AC voltage spikes, it might have a 3 phase alternator where only 2 of the coils are used to produce charge for the battery and the 3rd coil is only for ignition, they did that on some bikes. You can find that from looking at the bikes wiring diagram.
The service manual will tell you how to test your alternator field coils. Regulators and rectifiers can't do what they need to do if the incoming power is a problem to begin with, start your trouble-shooting at the alternator (power source) then work down stream.
 

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Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a volt meter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteris is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a volt meter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteris is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a volt meter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteris is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a volt meter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteris is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
Hey Desom,
It was not my subject starter but thanks for the information. I've been using those batteries for 6 years and never had problems. Coming from a racing background I first off many of the motorbikes we work on are new or almost new. The vintage stuff I will not work on if I can't up-grade the electric systems. We re-wind starters and have the alternators totally re-done. As I said we also go with modern regulators. You gave me some insight into some that was never a problem for me but sure as hell could have been in the future.

This is just the reason I've come to enjoy this forum. Thanks again for your input and info.

Cheers
 

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Sorry got called away. Can't see much wrong with the install except I can't tell if the regulator has a proper ground. Remember also that the regulator is the thing that controls how much voltage come from the charging system to the battery making sure that it's not too many volts and when the battery is up to proper volts it stop voltage from over charging. There are specs on how much voltage your alternator is making so you need to check that (I would think 13.5 > 14.5) if I recall those Suzukis (that age) did not have real great charging systems. We have a pair of 1982
GS1100E Classic Superbike racers and we've gone to a modern regulator.

Bottom line I'd not be blaming to batteries as the culprits. It's more likely they're the victims.
Thanks for your feedback.
I haven't checked the output of my voltage regulator yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lithium batteries require modern Mosfet regulators. Period. They are not designed to be used with old school regulators. I don't think Antigravity uses built in protection so it won't be at all tolerant of over-voltages.

From a quick Google search, the limit for an Antigravity battery is 14.6 volts. If you're charging system shows any more than that in use, it's going to kill the battery.

EDIT: FFS it says it has a 14.4 volt limit right on it. Did you check what your bike is putting out? You can also install a voltmeter made specifically for lithium batteries that will light up different colors depending on where the voltage is at. They're cheap on eBay.

Yes, an AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery will be more tolerant of higher voltages.

Also, one feature of lithium batteries is they don't need to sit on maintenance chargers when not being used though this assumes there's no draw on them while sitting there. Their self-discharge rate is very low.

BTW - I'm not just going off what I've heard. Been there, done that, did the homework after the first one...
Thanks for your feedback.
I do believe that my current regulator is Not compatible with any lithium battery so, I'm looking into modern Mosfet regulators now.
Do you have any brand recommendations? and if I were to go with AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery, is Mosfet regulators necessary?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
1980's charging systems were never designed to accommodate lithium batteries, the technology was practically non-existent at that time. Lead acid battery is what it was designed for and lead acid batteries are relatively forgiving with the charging circuit being shall we say :/ marginal.

Your alternator puts out all kinds of AC voltage spikes, it might have a 3 phase alternator where only 2 of the coils are used to produce charge for the battery and the 3rd coil is only for ignition, they did that on some bikes. You can find that from looking at the bikes wiring diagram.
The service manual will tell you how to test your alternator field coils. Regulators and rectifiers can't do what they need to do if the incoming power is a problem to begin with, start your trouble-shooting at the alternator (power source) then work down stream.
Thanks for your informative feedback.
I'm a newbie to the cafe racer world and without a doubt, I have lots to learn.
 

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TR ; It's not just about the newest, trickiest, zoomey bits it's also about how light those Lithium batteries are when compared to the old acid types. Not to mention the smaller size. It lets me stick a high voltage, high amp battery almost anywhere under the seat. With the old style ; because of the heavy weight you had to be careful to keep it inside the axles and depending on the weight distribution you were looking for you had to decide if it should be placed high or low in the frame. Now all I look for is where the thing is convenient,
 

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Discussion Starter #14
TR ; It's not just about the newest, trickiest, zoomey bits it's also about how light those Lithium batteries are when compared to the old acid types. Not to mention the smaller size. It lets me stick a high voltage, high amp battery almost anywhere under the seat. With the old style ; because of the heavy weight you had to be careful to keep it inside the axles and depending on the weight distribution you were looking for you had to decide if it should be placed high or low in the frame. Now all I look for is where the thing is convenient,
Yes, I do like how compact the Antigravity battery is.
This MOSFET Regulator-Rectifier is what I think will work for my bike.
 

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If you haven't looked at the wiring diagram and tested the outputs from your alternator coils, you are just taking another shot in the dark. For all you know right now you could have one of likely 3 field coils putting out way too much voltage or none at all.

... you don't have to sell me on lithium battery technology, only on where it is appropriate to use them,
and by all rights if your battery is half the weight and size you should probably be putting 2 of them in there. I assume you are building a street bike, you are going to have lights and horn and starter and signals. You are even suppose to have a parking light that stays on for a prescribed time.
 

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Thanks for your informative feedback.
I'm a newbie to the cafe racer world and without a doubt, I have lots to learn.
This isn't cafe racer stuff yet,
we are only scratching the surface of basic electrics applied to cheaply built post classic motorcycle hardware.
 

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My trials bikes blow that away, they have fuel injection and no battery,
just a small capacitor, and a little tiny auto decompressor on the exhaust cam to make starting easier,
but they do have a big ass alternator to power the fuel pump and spark plus lights if it needs them :cool:
 

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If the bike runs: measure the A.C. voltage output from the blue/white wire to ground, the green/white wire to ground and the yellow wire to ground, right from the connectors where they come out of your engine.

If the bike does not run: when the plugs are disconnected measure the resistance on those three wires to ground and it will likely be only a very few ohms, but there will be measurable resistance.

You just tested your alternator outputs :cool: and hopefully all of the readings are near identical or you may have a problem.
 
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