[alskee750]

Gents,

So racing season is over for me and I wanted to get an idea of what you GP350 racers have as a front end? What I mean is brakes/35mm forks/wheels, etc. I looked around last weekend at frontierland but didnt have time to ask any questions. Tex I saw you running a bigger front drum, what bike/year is that from? Any suggestion would be appreaciated.

Alex



Whodaman!

 

[bfd]

Alex
I'm using a CB450 front drum with shoes relined at Vintage Brake. That seems to be a pretty popular set up for this bike.
bfd

 

[mikeo]

Alex,

Almost noone uses the stock 350 front end. I use 35mm forks and drum brake from a 69 Benelli Toranado. A little overkill on the brake and a bit heavy but it was cheap. Linings from Vintage Brake. 450 Honda is a good set up and a lot of people like the Suzuki T500 brake but it has some strength problems. The Honda 305 brake is pretty good too but I wouldn't use the forks.

Mike O.

 

[Geeto67]

do you have to run the original brake configuration or can you convert drum to disc and still qualify for your class.

At a Shop I used to work at in New Orleans it was popular to ditch the cb350 twin brake drum for a cb350f/cb400f/cb550f disc front end. Made the same years the cb350 twin was and a much better brake. The local bike salvage yard was littered with them (depending on condition you could get the whole front end for around $90)and they are a bolt on. The 400 and 550 forks are a little beefier than the cb350's but still not the 35mm of a cb750. If you are able to run disc brakes the cb750A came with 35mm forks and a DID aluminum rim from the factory.

I have a t500 and the drum does a pretty good job on the street. t500 drums can be had pretty cheap.

here is a list of bikes that share the same neck bearing size as the cb350 (this does not mean the neck length is the same):

Upper: 26 x 48.5 x 15.2
Lower: 30 x 50 x 14.4
Honda C250N (79)
Honda CB250 (Early Models)
Honda CB250RS (80-84)
Honda CBX250RS
Honda CM250T Rebel (82-84)
Honda GB250F/F2
Honda MVX250 (83-84)
Honda VT250F (83-86), VTR250 (88)
Honda CB350F/F1 (73-74), CB350G (73), CB350/ K2-K4 (69-72)
Honda SL350 /K2/K3 (69-73)
Honda CB360 (74-76), CB360GT (76), CB360T (74-77)
Honda CJ360T (76-77), CL360 (74-75)
Honda CB400A (74-75), CB400F (75-77), CB400TI/TII (78-79), CB400T (80-81)
Honda CBX400F
Honda CM400A/C/E/T (79-81)
Honda GB400
Honda CB450/K1-K7 (65-74), CB450T (82), CB450SC (82-86)
Honda CL450 /K2-K6 (68-74)
Honda CM450A/C/E (82-83)
Honda CB500/K1/K2 (71-73), CB500T (75-76)
Honda CX500 C/D (78-81)
Honda FT500 Ascot (82-83)
Honda GB500F/F2
Honda GL500/I (81-82)
Honda VT500 Ascot (83-84), VT500ED, VT500C/FT (83-84)
Honda CB550K/K1 (74-78), CB550F (75-77), CB550SC (83)
Honda CBX550F (82-83)
Honda CB650 (79-82), CB650C (80-81), CB650SC (82-85), CBX650ED/SCD
Honda CX650C (83), CX650ED
Honda GL650/I (83)
Honda VT700C (84-85)
Honda CB750K (69-78), CB750A (76-78), CB750F (75-78)
Honda VFR750C (83)
Honda VT750C (83)
Honda GL1000 (75-76)
Honda GL1000L (76)

 

[jbranson]

I've got a T500 on my Honda 175 racer, with the complete Vintage Brake rebuild. It will stand the bike on the front wheel...however I'm getting rid of it...the hub is too flexible if you lighten or ventilate it....and it tends to crack if you don't. It's worked extremely well for me for 3 years but I don't have a lot of faith in it...and all it takes is a little hand pressure sideways on the tire to flex the hub enough for the tire to move side to about 1/4"...can't be good for holding your line in a fast corner.

I'm going to a worked 305 brake.
JohnnyB

PS. I use a CB550/4 front end

 

[alskee750]

thanks a bunch for that info. It's exactly what I was thinking of going with myself, cb450 brake. I opted for the first year not knowing alot to just get lined brakes from vintage brakes for the cb350. It works ok, but think it's time to move forward.

Once again thanks for the info.

Alex

Whodaman!

 

[joe c]

i was running the 450 brake. its a pretty straight forward bolt up. i gave that to aaron and im planning on lacing my waterbuffalo up. the 450 was a really nice brake and i really liked it alot. plenty of stopping power and it would heat nicely. im running the cb750ss forks. they have slightly longer sliders, reduced tube flex they say. plus they are aerodynamic! the 350 is almost exactly the same but it has 4 less spokes. and i agreee with jb that if you go with a heavier spoke, there probably isnt a problem with strength. the 450's arnt too tough to get either for cheap money. but they are getting harder to find. aaron, dont forget about my rim job.

jc

 

[JD]

hehe, rim job

and just for the record, 400 forks are 33mm, the 550 are 35mm but don't have the super sliders that joe loves

 

[jbranson]

Keep in mind that the 305 Superhawk brake is the same dimensions at the 450 brake as far as contact area of the shoes. The 450 brake is a very very strong hub...excessively strong I think. If you saw a 305 compared to the T500 you wouldn't believe it...the 305 has probably twice the thickness of metal on the hub and webbing....and the 450 is even thicker and has more webbing. I've got both sitting on the bench right now....decided to go with the 305 for the reduced weight...the strength of the 450 would only be necessary for a 400 lb bike.

JC....whatcha going to use a WB brake for? Freakin things weigh 23 lbs. or more than 10 lbs heavier than a 305/450. I like good breaks too but they are kind of overkill...Hirko has one on his 350 but it's a pretty hot supervintage machine.
Sure wish someone made an affordable 220mm drum that wasn't stupid heavy.
JohnnyB

 

[joe c]

jb, ive always wanted one. its all about keeping the front end planted you know. chris m swears by it. i know my bikes a stocker but im not planning on leaving it that way forever. im sure hirko uses his. everybit of it. just before he falls off. its not so much that i need more brake, but i want more. you know how you said you dont trust your brake? well, sometimes its in your head. tanner is running one, and i think rab has some kind of 4ls. its just cool. thats all. when i see pics of the serious period bikes, they all run a 4ls brake. it just seems right. and god, if i had the cash for a real yamaha mag brake, hell, id get one of those too. and if im not going to go fast, i might as well be able to stop fast. besides, im doing everything i can to get aaron to beat you. so when he called me crying about needing more brake, i couldnt say no. yeah, its overkill. but wtf.

and agreed on all of the above points made by jb. the 450 realistically is enough i think with a good compound. but i wont know til i try the wb.

jc

 

[jbranson]

I totally understand the desire for lots of brake. For the most part I'm thinking having mondo braking power will help lap times considerably more than the extra weight will hurt. Great brakes can get you 2 -3 seconds a lap...the extra weight might cost you 1/2 second.

I wouldn't mind getting hold of a WB brake and seeing just how much weight could be removed.
JohnnyB

 

[jbranson]

I just put up a webpage doing a comparison of the 305 and 450 drums with side by side photos of a few examples out of my brake collection.

Here:
http://www.jrbranson.com/showandtell.htm

JohnnyB

 

[alskee750]

JB,

Thanks for the show&tell that really makes it more clear.

Alex

Whodaman!

 

[bfd]

JohnnyB
That thing cleaned up nice!

bfd

 

[texmawby]

alex,

i have a 35mm marzocchi front end on my bike with a 230mm grimeca 2LS brake off a ducati 450 silver shotgun. this brake is very common to any middleweight italian machines (laverda, benelli, etc). i need to send it out to vintage brake to have it worked (relined) for next season. i'm using triple trees off a cb750k with timken bearings.

get yo' self some forks and a bigger brake. you'll dig it the most.

tex

p.s.- thanks for stealing tim's whiskey bottle.

 

[jbranson]

BFD,
Actually the brake in the photo is not the one you gave me....but I'm working on the one you gave me...it will look that good in a week or so. I needed one for my bike and one for Mary's bike.

It's going to need new cams I think...that weird setup with the jam nuts holding on the actuating arms is kind of suspect, looks like it might have been pieced together from spare parts.

I've also sent some photos of various 305 shoes to Moorse to see what he can make of them. I've found two or three different style shoes used in the 305. Some of them the friction material stops about 2" short of the cam shoe end. Others have the material that wraps all the way around and has a nice recess that the material sits in...but has less depth to the webbing. Of course I'd like to use the shoes with the longer linings....hopefully Moorse can tell me what's what. I think the short lining shoes are actually rear pads that people sell as front/rear....or perhaps a shoe from some other bike that happens to fit. It's a difference of about 5 square inches of surface area so it would make a difference in braking.

Before it's all over I'm going to design and have made my own 4LS brake. Probably a bolt together hub, around 40 square inches of contact, 200-220mm, hopefully around 12 lb. Probably using the backing plate off an existing OEM brake. Gimme a few years though.
JohnnyB

 

[UngaWunga]

Next time I take the front end off of my CB450, I'll diassemble the drum and take some pictures. It has a water buffalo front that's been lightened considerably. What makes those brakes so heavy is the thick liner. Thin that out on a lathe drops an assload of weight. Plus you can drill the usual lightening holes between the webbing.

 

[Geeto67]

Aren't GT750 buffs a 4leading shoe front brake? They are heavy because they are massive.

 

[joe c]

yep.

jc

 

[jbranson]

They are a bit massive...but still...23 lb. seems excessive. They are 220mm right? They are close to twice the weight of a 2LS 200mm brake....and close to 3 times the weight of a 200mm 2LS T500 brake. The T500 has a real thin liner...about 3/32, the Honda 200mm brakes about 12 lb. have a liner that looks about 1/8".

Like Rob says, I bet you could turn a couple pounds of liner off the WB brake. Drill the shoe webbing and the usual hub/backing plate work, replace the link rods and cinch bolts with Ti. Maybe shave off a pound of aluminum here and there will a mill.

Hell....you have have TWO t-500 brakes and still only weigh 17 lbs.

I gotta get one just to play with.
JohnnyB