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NHIS question

1988 Views 25 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  paced_haste
I am sure this question has been asked to death, I have only been a USCRA member two years and am fairly new to this site so I appologize in advance, But what do we pay NHIS for a single day event? What does LRRS pay for a weekend? How about Penquin or Hawk, or even track-day buyers like Max BMW? I guess I have been wondering about this ever since I went to AMP in Shubie, NS last year and was surprised to find that the track is basically club owned.
In light of our percarious position at NHIS and the fact that it seems we get the leftovers (and I realize if it were not for guys like Bob we might not even get that!)and the rumor that we may be cut to only three dates next year. I have also been wondering if a co-op or club owned facility has ever been considered here?
I have wondered this question so much that I have been doing some research on what it would take to build a similar (AMP) facility in say, west central NH somewhere off I89.
I am currently working with a developer/ GC on a fairly large project at our family business and since the CEO is a vintage car guy, he is more than willing to talk to me about it.
I am very familar with what is going on in Tamworth. I have a friend who worked there. I believe most of the problems they are running into are because they chose Tamworth!
There are places in Sullivan and Grafton Counties that still don't have zoning and land prices for large tracts are at or even below $1000 an acre. The developer believes a facility like AMP could possibly be built for around or even under $1m.
So, what do you think? Form a committee from members from all interested parties (USCRA, LRRS, SCCA, the vintage car people, go-carts, etc.), elect a board of directors, create by-laws, sell modestly priced shares, find a willing bank and go for it?
Why not?

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I floated the idea about 5 years ago....I came to many of the same conclusions as yourself. I was will be ignored. If we had taken some action five years ago....we could be well on our way to our own piece of pavement by now.
Right now we've fallen back on the old "If someone wins the lotto" plan.
One of the problems is that the high ranking core of the USCRA will not travel to other tracks. I can name a dozen long time, influential members that you will never see at any track but NHIS. Most of them live within one hour of NHIS.
I can't say I blame them...I'd be partial to a track one hour away. I've got three tracks within four hours, NHIS, Quebec and Shannonville. And Beaver and Mosport within 7 hours.
The problem I see with lack of races at NHIS has more to do with the health of the club. Probably 50% of the members just don't race anywhere else. Just like probably 80% of VRRA members only race at Shannon or Mosport. Back when the USCRA had five races at least two of them being two day events there was a lot of enthusiasm, championships were taken seriously, lots of cool exotic bikes showed up.
There are a lot of members with children, jobs, lives...etc that make traveling a pain. So they like to race somewhere close if possible. I never assume people are in....or not in...the same boat as me.
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In general the current legal climate surrounding environmental issues makes track building a very hard sell to banks.

I've done most things in my life in kind of a sideways legal fashion. If it was my task to build a track. I'd buy about 200-300 acres...I'd build a very small house somewhere on the back third of the property...I'd build a VERY long, wide, nice....scenic circular drive up to the house and back to the road. Not a freakin thing could be done to stop you in most places. have a piece of property, you have a piece of pavement. You can legal invite friends over and race around your driveway as long as the neighbors don't complain and your friends don't sue. you have a piece of property, with pavement, with bikes on it.
Assuming you built in the right locations...meaning in the middle of attempt to sell the property to a non-profit motorcycle club for private use. Now you have a non-residential piece of property, with pavement, with bikes on it.

After a year or so of having bikes hanging out, playing around, you approach whomever passes for city fathers in that area about opening up the track to rentals, club events, etc. Discuss noise, traffic whatever. If the initial location research was done properly you should be able to pull it off.

The key is starting as a private owner, with a residence, the laws are mega more flexible where private residential property is concerned. Once that pavement is most of the way there. Worse case scenario the club has sell the property, and hopefully take only a 20-30% loss.

My friends that do volume paving have told me that standard 3 -4" thick pavement can be done for about $2 a square foot including bed prep...assuming suitable land....meaning no blasting, bridges, huge earth moving projects etc....just bulldozing and gravel bed.
That's about $211 k per 20' wide mile. So figure min. $400-450k for two miles of pavement. Now this would be typical standard we race on at Frontier Land...just parking lot/driveway asphalt...I'm sure specialty paving would be a lot more. Realistically you'd probably want to spend more like $600k to make sure you have a rock solid base to prevent cracking or other issues for the first five years.

I still say 300 dedicated people could do it no problem. Total cost might be $3-4000 per person when it was all done. Each person with a percentage stake in the track. You'd probably have to generate $50k a year to pay taxes, insurance and upkeep.

Out of the 300'd hopefully have the resources of small earth moving equipment, mowers, logging, plumbers, electricians and carpenters.
I have no doubt in my mind it could be done in the midwest somewhere...OK, Mont, Wyo, etc....but then you'd probably not have enough customers to keep it afloat.
We have a local Harley "club" here that owns a couple of hundred acres, huge club house, has giant parties and swap meets etc. Been there for years.
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All depends on your location.
For instance I had my 12 acres permit, no nothing (not on my end anyway). Of course you need a permit to build a house...but they have to let you build a drive way to it...I've never seen a permit required for a driveway in this neck of the woods. You'd need approval if you crossed or modified any wetlands, even up here. Everything up here is zoned "light industrial" which covers everything from houses to medium sized businesses. I could open a business out of my house with nary a permit in sight.
We have a dirt bike club about three miles from here that owns a couple hundred acres, they've made trails all over the place. There's a house not far from here up on a big hill where the drive has got to be 1/2 mile long...winding up the hill...major excavation required.

For a project like a start out with just a gravel road. Then pave...everything in small steps. Like my building inspector once told me.....don't ask questions and you won't get answers you don't like.
Pastrana's house probably has neighbors that live in 1 million dollar houses and are not keen on lunatics living next door.

It can be done...just has to be done slow and quiet.'s pointless to discuss it....again...cause it ain't going to happen.
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I'm there will bells on baby! That's only 3.5 hours from me.

Typical entry for a USCRA Event is about 100-120 entrants. With a combined race total of around 200+ entries. Meaning...100-120 people show up and enter at least one race....about 200+ total races entered (people entering more than one). Of course I'd pay more for a three day event that I would for a one day event.


PS. I can work up some numbers if you want, showing average participation at USCRA events the last few years.

Edited by - jbranson on Oct 05 2006 5:29:54 PM
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Rosko, membership hovers around the 300 mark most of the time.
I'd guess recently we are probably 300+.
Definately easier to form a good relationship with another track than to build one yourself.
NHIS is literally the busiest motorcycle race track in the country, LRRS is the largest club racing organization in the country, it's not surprising it's hard to get dates there. And strangely's probably the worst actual track layout of any track in the NE. Every other track I've been to is much more a "real" road race course. But the facilities at NHIS are top notch...that's what keeps a whole lot of the locals going.
So join CRAP (Craig's Racing and Partying) club :)
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