[jbranson]

Craig,
Yep...weight. The stainless lines are pretty heavy and don't really offer any more resistance to heat since they are the same material underneath the stainless. The SS lines are mainly for high pressure and abrasion resistance.
I'm using Nyloc nuts on the long bolts right now, but now that you mention it I think I'll wrap some lock wire around the threads of the bolt that is past the nut and tie it off to something.

Fever,
Yep, main concern is top end heat in general, and specifically on my bike trying to keep the cam, rockers, springs and valves cooler.

The whole system would attach to a CB160 exactly the same as to this sloper 175.

Actually I'm after the CL175 sloper bottom ends, just the crankcase, crank and tranny. I've paid up to $150 for the bottom ends. I've got two spares now (three if I steal Aarons, but as they are getting harder to find I'm trying to pick them up.

George DeCamp recently picked up about a 1/2 $million in NOS Honda stuff, he's going to save me any NOS cases he comes across....assuming there are any.

I know where a couple are now, but I'm always looking to find one cheap like $50-100. So if you happen to come across any at bargin prices as Mid-O I'll take them off your hands with consideration to you for your trouble of course.
JohnnyB

 

[parks61]

oil coolers, burnt mobil 1, oye what a bummer. get a 2 stroke guys
parks 61

 

[Eric750]

hey can that be done with a cb350 twin? been looking at one of my
side covers and i dont quite get it. dose the the oil come from
both passages? if not where do you put the new an fittings.

thanks eric

 

[jbranson]

Eric,
I can't say for sure if it can be done to a CB350 I've never looked at one very close.
JohnnyB

 

[Eric750]

thats kool i'll keep looking at it. it looks almost the same.
just need to think it out on how the oil flows.

thanks eric

 

[kenessex]

Eric,
You can do it to a 350, too. I did one on my first 350 years ago. I have been planning to do another. If I get a chance in the next week or so I will do it and take some photos and post them. The oil flow is out of the center of the centrifugal oil filter into the clutch cover. From there it flows forfard throgh that passage and back into the cases. I tapped into the oil passage wher it makes the 90 degree bend to head toward the center cases. At the time I did it last time I worked at a well equiped shop so I turned a fitting out of aluminum that was long enough that it entered the passage and blocked off the horizontal run and I welded it into the side cover. I am not sure what I am going to do this time but I'll figure out a way to block off the passage between my feed and return fittings. For the return fitting from the oil cooler I just drilled into the passage about half way from the outside of the clutch cover to the gasket mating surface. I tapped the hole and screwed in a fitting to match up with the oil retun line.
I'll try and get to this before I return to Alaska, or it will have to wait until next summer. Sorry about the long post since a couple of pictures would explain it all.

Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[Eric750]

thats cool and i'll wait to see the pics if you get a chance to get
them taken.


thanks eric

 

[jbranson]

Ken...so the oil in a 350 flows in the opposite direction of the 175?
On the 175 it enters the clutch cover from the front and flows to the oil filter, then out towards the rear and up to the main oil gallery behind the cylinders.
JohnnyB

 

[ROSKO]

Johnny, 350 is TWICE as backwards as a 175.

Ken, post them pics!

BORN TO LURK, FORCED TO WORK.

 

[ROSKO]

Johnny, Whoa! Great job (as usual).

How much oil is(or will be) in the system now?

BORN TO LURK, FORCED TO WORK.

 

[kenessex]

Hey Johnny, Come to think of it, I don't know in which direction the oil actually flows. I just used that passage to tap into. Does the direction of flow really matter? I have an engine apart on my bench, I'll see what I can figure out.
Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[jbranson]

Rosko, total oil capcity will be about 1/2 quart more than stock...or about 2 quarts.

Ken, in general it's best to put a cooler at the outlet of the oil pump, before the oil has to go through any other passages, filers or metering orifices. That way you get full flow through the cooler and provide cool oil to everything down stream. The cooler will usually provide less restriction to flow than any other part of the system....but it does provide some restriction. If for instance the oil filter passages are more restrictive than the oil cooler...then you have a flow decrease through the filter passages...then another decrease through the cooler. Whereas if it's the other way around....you have a decrease through the filter...(which flows more than the filter passages)..and then another decrease through the filter passages. Ok..that's not very clear.
How about this.... it's like water plumbing...you don't want to supply a large pipe with a small pipe. You want to do it the other way around. You want to supply the small pipe, with a large pipe. So, if the filter passages are the most restrictive, you want to place the less restrictive oil cooler BEFORE the filter. Typically the passages at the outlet of the pump are the largest, they should flow more oil than anything downstream of them. That's where you want the cooler. If the cooler is placed after the filter then you get a pressure drop at the filter passages...AND at the cooler.

Also...the filter passages on the Hondas go through numerous twists, turns and junctions....like the spinning junctions at the filter opening...and cooler downstream of this means a little bit more back pressure trying to force oil to leak at these connections.

To be honest...in actual practice...I seriously doubt if it makes much difference where the cooler taps are, as long as they are in a position where ALL of the engine oil has to flow through them. I have though seen people who have tapped into the main oil gallery in the crankcase...by the time the oil gets there it's already sent some oil up one side of the cylinders, and some to the tranny, so only part of the oil is ever sent through the cooler. They end up only cooling half of the engine.

I've also seen people install coolers between the crankcase supply and the top end supply...this is acceptable if you are concerned with bypassing the cylinder passages and providing cooled oil to the top end. Oil picks up a lot of heat going up the cylinder passages to the top end. Which will be the case in my setup...but I'm banking on the fact that if the oil is going into the cases at 40-50 degrees cooler it's going to be cooler when it hits the top end than if I didn't have a cooler at all.

So...while the direction of oil flow through the COOLER isn't important...the direction of flow through the engine where you tap into it IS important. Or more accurately...the LOCATION of the taps in the oil flow schematic is important.

Pump ---> Big pipe ---> cooler ---> big pipe ---> small pipes ---> filter ---> small pipes ----> metering orifices. Kinda like that.

JohnnyB

 

[bfd]

JohnnyB
Do you think the pressure is greatest right at that location too?
The water pipe analogy is easy to understand so I can see how some other styles of routing I've seen may not be of much help.
bfd

 

[jbranson]

Pressure will always be greatest at the outlet of the pump. Pressure decreases as you progress through the system due to "head loss" which is the natural resistance to flow in any fluid system. Head loss doesn't necessary reduce pressure in a particular part of a system though....the cooler will flow much more than the rest of the system will....when the cooler is up stream of smaller passages it's like having a large water pipe supply a small faucet....no matter how much you open the small faucet the large pipe won't reduce flow through it because it flows more than the faucet. In a engine oil system, pressure and flow will be determined by the smallest passage through which the entire oil supply must flow (with a given supply volume and pressure).

It's like having a 5 foot dam behind a ten foot dam. Yes the five foot dam holds back 5 feet of water...but it's moot because the next dam holds back 10 feet.
JohnnyB

 

[kenessex]

Ok here are some pics, I hope.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/kenessex/pumpoutlet.jpg
This shows the oil pump and the outlet in the cases. This matches up with the clutch cover.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/kenessex/insidecover.jpg
This is the cover.The lower passage is the outlet from the pump . The oil then goes through the oil filter and back into the cover and out the upper passage.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/kenessex/oilfittings.jpg
This shows where I drilled into the cover. The brass fittings are just to show location and angle. The angled fitting will block off the passage and is the outlet from the oil cooler and the straight barbed fitting is where the cooler feed will go.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/kenessex/coveroilpassage.jpg
This shows the passage that I followed to drill out of the case. It is angled. I will run a tap into this passage and thread it for a brass fitting that will seal the passage.
Drilling this only took about 5 min. I expect to have it drilled tapped and sealed in about 30 min of time. The oil passage is about 5/16 so i will need to make sure my fittings are at least that.

Ken

AHRMA 412
Vintage racing - old guys on old bikes

 

[jbranson]

Ken...that is functionally the same setup I have. Components are in slightly different locations but the flow is the same.

I wondering about you plugging that last passage in the photos...that's where the oil enters the filter system....you are going to run a fitting in from the OUTSIDE that seals it off from the supply side of the passage right? That should work fine. For a minute it sounded like you were going to plug it from the filter access cover side...which of course would shut off oil to the whole engine.

Yeah, that setup should work good. Full flow through the cooler. That angled fitting shooting right into the filter passage would flow a bit better than my setup...the engine cover on the 175 isn't as beefy as the 350 and I needed to keep the fitting a little more out of harms way so it had to be mounted farther in where it couldn't get a straight shot at the filter passage.
JohnnyB