Opinions?
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right on i just read a review of it, in some bike mag and it got good reviews....i even fliped through one at a used book store but it's been sold and i don't want to buy a new one....anyway i am going to be setting up shop in a few weeks....so everyone should keep their eyes peeled....oh yeah hey Aaron, JD, Joe whoever it is that controls this webstie i am going to be setting up a web site and so you are going to have to update your links page soon, just a heads up......
"Ride Fast and Take Chances"
"Ride Fast and Take Chances"
thats jeremy. im just a heckeler. ive seen books on how to setup youre woodworking shop. the basics are there, but most of them i dislike. my shop is constantly evolving with new tools and machines. so shit is always getting moved around. and depending on where you work the most and what you use the most, will dictate how things get aranged. look at some of the shops around town, take all of the good things you like, and start there. you'll change it all in about 6 months anyway. ive also found that people pretty much copy the mistakes of any arrangement of where they spent most of thier time working. my shop is slowly turning into the one i used to work in. good luck. also, handy industries sells a nice pnuematic lift thats well built and cheap. they are on the web.
jc
jc
Seriously now, depending on the size of your shop and the amount of equipment you plan on having..... everything on wheels!
My shop is about 32 x 24'. Got all the usual stuff, plus a Bridgeport, a lathe, blasting cabinet, two MIGS, one TIG, hossfeld bender, 4' box and pan brake, 30" shear and roller, band saw, 4x4 work table and the usual benches all the way round. The secret is... I have everything mounted on casters. I can totally rearange the shop on a moments notice. Even the 2400 lb Mill is on casters.
The main reason for my shop being set up this way is it's also a working metal shop at times, and sometimes the projects are very large. There's also six bikes in the shop. Many of the items required that I weld up a support carriage that the casters attach to. For me it's worth it because space is at a premium. Might not be worth it otherwise.
One thing nice about everything on wheels is I can have a centrally mounted hoist, I can roll a 500 lb welder under the hoist, lift it, pull my truck underneath and drop in the back of the truck.
Also...forget commercial shelving. Go with real pallet racks with 3/4"ply shelving inserts you cut yourself. Way way stronger and way cheaper than commercial shelving, these things will hold thousands of pounds. I can give you the link to the place I bought mine, had them shipped truck frieght and picked them up at the local depot.
Damn I've got something to say about everything don't I.
JohnnyB
PS. Get the pallet racks in 24" depth, you can piece together a whole system of shelves and super strong workbench all with the same pieces and you can take it apart and bring it with you if you move. Here's the link to the guys I used. http://www.shelving.com/home.html
Edited by - jbranson on Jul 05 2004 01:09:58 AM
My shop is about 32 x 24'. Got all the usual stuff, plus a Bridgeport, a lathe, blasting cabinet, two MIGS, one TIG, hossfeld bender, 4' box and pan brake, 30" shear and roller, band saw, 4x4 work table and the usual benches all the way round. The secret is... I have everything mounted on casters. I can totally rearange the shop on a moments notice. Even the 2400 lb Mill is on casters.
The main reason for my shop being set up this way is it's also a working metal shop at times, and sometimes the projects are very large. There's also six bikes in the shop. Many of the items required that I weld up a support carriage that the casters attach to. For me it's worth it because space is at a premium. Might not be worth it otherwise.
One thing nice about everything on wheels is I can have a centrally mounted hoist, I can roll a 500 lb welder under the hoist, lift it, pull my truck underneath and drop in the back of the truck.
Also...forget commercial shelving. Go with real pallet racks with 3/4"ply shelving inserts you cut yourself. Way way stronger and way cheaper than commercial shelving, these things will hold thousands of pounds. I can give you the link to the place I bought mine, had them shipped truck frieght and picked them up at the local depot.
Damn I've got something to say about everything don't I.
JohnnyB
PS. Get the pallet racks in 24" depth, you can piece together a whole system of shelves and super strong workbench all with the same pieces and you can take it apart and bring it with you if you move. Here's the link to the guys I used. http://www.shelving.com/home.html
Edited by - jbranson on Jul 05 2004 01:09:58 AM
for shop space you'll probably need at least 1500 sq'. more is always better and usually cheaper per sq' i have about 2500 in my immediate shop space then about another 2000' of it outside of that space i dont use for anything but storage and as a staging area if i need it. i have enough space that i dont need to have things on wheels. the thing i dont like about wheels is that it can make things really unstable. shoving a 16' long 4" thick piece of 12" wide maple through the planer means the 450lb planer absolutely has to be bolted down or it'll flip over once the leverage gets in effect. it also means the floor has to be very smooth and level. i also have a 12' drive-in loading dock and a 4' loading dock as well as ground level double door entry, which is a major perk. i can roll off of the truck, or roll in from the street. i also have my shop seperate from the rest of the more unused space. each area is heated seperately, so in the winter, i only need to heat my immediate space and not the loading docks. and heating 5000sq' with 12-15' ceilings will cost you alot. i guess it depends on what kind of volume youre going to be doing though. if youre only planning on having 2 bikes at a time. you could get away with alot less. tom and chris' shop is about 3000sq' but its packed with motorcycles, cars and various other projects. they have a centrally located isle and the work bays are to either side. then the machines are all in behind. they can roll in one end, and out the other. and this is just for them to have fun, drink and build race bikes mostly. 1000sq' per person basically. ok, bye.
Sounds like an excellent setup JC. Nice to have that much room.
My bandsaw being on wheels is kind of a pain in the ass. I have to use those adjustable roller stands a lot for anything more than about six feet long. Welders have to be on wheels due to the limited length of the cables. I'd say a metal shop takes up less room than a wood shop. Fewer tools in general, and with metal you don't have to work with real long pieces most of the time. You can always weld together shorter pieces. For the most part my shop is only set up to handle 12 foot stock. Anything longer and I start to bang into things when I turn like something from the three stooges.
I had to get real creative when I built my 23' long trailer.
Hopefully within a two years I'll have a dedicated 60x30 shop. Every weekend we go out in search the right piece of land, just haven't found it yet. Prices in this area have easily doubled in the last ten years, it's crazy around here. Glad you mentioned a loading dock, didn't even think of that, sure would come in handy.
JohnnyB
My bandsaw being on wheels is kind of a pain in the ass. I have to use those adjustable roller stands a lot for anything more than about six feet long. Welders have to be on wheels due to the limited length of the cables. I'd say a metal shop takes up less room than a wood shop. Fewer tools in general, and with metal you don't have to work with real long pieces most of the time. You can always weld together shorter pieces. For the most part my shop is only set up to handle 12 foot stock. Anything longer and I start to bang into things when I turn like something from the three stooges.
I had to get real creative when I built my 23' long trailer.
Hopefully within a two years I'll have a dedicated 60x30 shop. Every weekend we go out in search the right piece of land, just haven't found it yet. Prices in this area have easily doubled in the last ten years, it's crazy around here. Glad you mentioned a loading dock, didn't even think of that, sure would come in handy.
JohnnyB
check out my sponsors shop. slaysmanforge.com he has 1000sq' 2 setup tables a bridgeport type mill, a big drill press with swiveling head, a large pneumatic power hammer, a forge, bending gear, 2 horizontal band saws. he has a few welders and cutters, but for the most part, if he cleaned the place out, he can fit all of his stuff in there. but there isnt alot of room for setup. but then again, you dont build really huge things out of metal because the weight becomes too restrictive. i can build 20' running feet of free standing break back bookcases and still have plenty of room in the shop. the loading dock is nice. my buddy doesnt have one, so everything has to either be lifted off of a supply truck by hand, or lifted onto a truck for deivery. then most of it gets dropped onto the floor and walked on until it gets used. and he has all of his welders/cutters on carts. everything else is bolted to the ground. the optimum setup is to have a drive in loading dock like i have. for commercial situations, like me, have one that a normal delivery truck will be about even with. it makes things abuot 100x easier since most drivers dont get off of the truck. and i can also load stuff up, and leave it in there over night without having to worry. i've completely moved my shop once since i moved into the shop. im still not totally happy with the layout. there are 3 columns that make it tough to do anything.
30x60 is just about the perfect size for one guy not doing serious production work. you'll have plenty of room. maybe even fit a spray booth if youre not going to be building trailers alot. i used to be in a 1car and it just got stupid. i knew there was no way i was going to be able to fit into a 2 car. thats only about 600sq', just under typically. i knew 1000 was going to be the minimum. i fell into a great deal wiht what i have. it took along time to find. its a really great situation though. and totally convenient. 10mins from the house. and right off of the highway. its nice. and no motorcycles in the house anymore! although the garage is still full of them.
jc
30x60 is just about the perfect size for one guy not doing serious production work. you'll have plenty of room. maybe even fit a spray booth if youre not going to be building trailers alot. i used to be in a 1car and it just got stupid. i knew there was no way i was going to be able to fit into a 2 car. thats only about 600sq', just under typically. i knew 1000 was going to be the minimum. i fell into a great deal wiht what i have. it took along time to find. its a really great situation though. and totally convenient. 10mins from the house. and right off of the highway. its nice. and no motorcycles in the house anymore! although the garage is still full of them.
jc
PS. About the book. A friend of mine said it sucked too. Basically all the stupid things someone would have to know. Like cookbooks for the beginner. Buy a stove. Buy measuring cups.
I have a garage that is 12 x 18 filled with woodworking tools and motorcycles, and a metal shop 12 x 22 filled with metal tools and motorcycyles. Guess which one gets the most usage. Way too small.
evil
I have a garage that is 12 x 18 filled with woodworking tools and motorcycles, and a metal shop 12 x 22 filled with metal tools and motorcycyles. Guess which one gets the most usage. Way too small.
evil
I do some furniture on commision. Like this example.
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I sometimes work with a local shop that does hand made tiles when they have a customer that wants ornamental iron work bases. I have a couple of pieces in various galleries from Martha's Vineyard to Boston.
JC you'd be surprised how light some large metal structures can be. I work mostly with tube steel of some sort which really doesn't weigh that much when compared to solid hardwoods. I did a complete free standing set of stairs for a guy three years ago, really burned myself on that one, ended up making about $10/hr after it was all over. That's the last time I'll ever work from a set of house blue prints...they aren't even close...or what actually gets built isn't anyway. A few years ago I did a back bar for a night club, two end stands for registers connected by a 14' truss, connected to the truss was all the supports for glass shelving for glass wear, on top was a platform that held.....get ready.... a Harley Roadking. The truss I build was 1.5" wide, unsupported for 14' after we parked the harley on it, it had about 1/16th sag in the middle. Since then I've adapted it to hold a 100 gal fish tank. I get weird jobs.
The problem with my small shop is that during the winter I have to all but shut it down except for small jobs. No place to paint, can't open doors and stick the long stuff out etc. Can't wait for the new shop, Mary wants a new house, I told her no deal unless I get my steel building.
JohnnyB
Edited by - jbranson on Jul 05 2004 9:30:56 PM
I sometimes work with a local shop that does hand made tiles when they have a customer that wants ornamental iron work bases. I have a couple of pieces in various galleries from Martha's Vineyard to Boston.
JC you'd be surprised how light some large metal structures can be. I work mostly with tube steel of some sort which really doesn't weigh that much when compared to solid hardwoods. I did a complete free standing set of stairs for a guy three years ago, really burned myself on that one, ended up making about $10/hr after it was all over. That's the last time I'll ever work from a set of house blue prints...they aren't even close...or what actually gets built isn't anyway. A few years ago I did a back bar for a night club, two end stands for registers connected by a 14' truss, connected to the truss was all the supports for glass shelving for glass wear, on top was a platform that held.....get ready.... a Harley Roadking. The truss I build was 1.5" wide, unsupported for 14' after we parked the harley on it, it had about 1/16th sag in the middle. Since then I've adapted it to hold a 100 gal fish tank. I get weird jobs.
The problem with my small shop is that during the winter I have to all but shut it down except for small jobs. No place to paint, can't open doors and stick the long stuff out etc. Can't wait for the new shop, Mary wants a new house, I told her no deal unless I get my steel building.
JohnnyB
Edited by - jbranson on Jul 05 2004 9:30:56 PM
randy does alot of furniture. hed be really pissed off if he saw those scrolls. take a look at the scrolls on the handrail he and i did. all hand forged. scrolls should taper. not just die. but he does alot of the same things. theres a place here in town that buys alot of stuff from him like that. table bases and chairs and what not. he does some really nice work. i have piles more pictures. one day i'll finally get them all organized, and get the website up. one day.
hey, that candle holder could double as a beer cup holder!!
jc
hey, that candle holder could double as a beer cup holder!!
jc
well since we are getting into metal work and such on the thread.....here is a good friends web site, i helped him build the shop he works out of......
http://www.firecirclestudio.com/
enjoy
"Ride Fast and Take Chances"
http://www.firecirclestudio.com/
enjoy
"Ride Fast and Take Chances"
Very nice railing. Was it all done in shop and then brought to the site? I freakin hate stair railings. Measurements are never freakin right.
I stop worrying about things like tapered scrolls. The vast majority of people don't want to pay for the labor it takes to do it. Specially when they can get all the crappy look alike stuff that want from India for next to nothing. I've also had people that made me grind them down because they don't want their kids getting their eye put out, or hung from them like a Man Called Horse. Course nothing looks as good as the real thing, gotta find people with deep pockets though.
I don't do forge work, just ornamental iron/steel. I design it, bend it weld it. Sometimes do a little heating and hammering to get the right look but no real forge work. I end up doing a lot of quasi mission style or contemporary stuff. Nowadays you can order all the neato forged ferrels, knobs, caps etc from catelogs...some of it even made in the USA. I've made my own jigs for twisting stiles and shit like that. Nice when you can find people willing to pay for good work, but some many now days just want the look, don't want the real thing.
Between the bunch of us we could build a pretty neat house.
JohnnyB
I stop worrying about things like tapered scrolls. The vast majority of people don't want to pay for the labor it takes to do it. Specially when they can get all the crappy look alike stuff that want from India for next to nothing. I've also had people that made me grind them down because they don't want their kids getting their eye put out, or hung from them like a Man Called Horse. Course nothing looks as good as the real thing, gotta find people with deep pockets though.
I don't do forge work, just ornamental iron/steel. I design it, bend it weld it. Sometimes do a little heating and hammering to get the right look but no real forge work. I end up doing a lot of quasi mission style or contemporary stuff. Nowadays you can order all the neato forged ferrels, knobs, caps etc from catelogs...some of it even made in the USA. I've made my own jigs for twisting stiles and shit like that. Nice when you can find people willing to pay for good work, but some many now days just want the look, don't want the real thing.
Between the bunch of us we could build a pretty neat house.
JohnnyB
that looked like all plasma cut. randy does some of that kind of work, but mostly its forging. he buys alot of preformed from catalogs. polished knobs and things like that. for people who arent picky. but sometimes hes doing stuff downtown or in annapolis or someplace like that and it has to be the real deal. and he does quite a bit of that. as far as woodworking goes, there isnt a big restoration movement going on in baltimore. alot of refurbishing, or just plain vinyl siding. myself and randy only like to work for people who have alot of money. mostly because they always have money. working for poor people usually sucks. and they crap when they hear how long things will take or how much it'll cost. its the old, "well, i can go to ikea and get kitchen cabinets for 1500, why would i spend 10k??" in my experience, if you have to explain that, they still wont understand. or explaining hardware differences or reveals and this and that, they just usually dont care. besides, most people who want something custom made, know they cant just walk into home depot or lowes and buy it. so thats where i come in. try buying a 16' piece of moulding from a 75' diameter from homedepot and see what you get! anyway, the hand rail curve was preformed at the shop to a rough radius. then tacked into place on the tread scrolls. then the top rail was put on using the top and bottom posts. then the scroll panels installed. all ofthe forging and scrolls were done at the shop. so basically the entire thing was built in place. my part of the job was to replace the handrail. i had to use the existing one and make it work. there was a gooseneck and something else. i hacked out the gooseneck and replaced it with a straight piece of rail and made it all match then reinstalled it. with stairs, you almost are always forced to build most of it onsite for one reason or another. right now im pricing raised panel wainscotting that runs up a flight, to a landing, then wraps, then up another flight. most of it will be built onsite. with the exception of the panels and stiles and rails, theres no real way top do it. the stiles and rails will have to get laid out, then milled, the panles made, then the entire thing final dimensioned at the site. pain in the ass!
jc
jc
JC,
That's top notch work you guys do. One of my limits is I won't do onsite work. Not even installation unless it's something like a whole staircase or something odd like the bar at the nightclub. I live a good way out of town and don't have a vehicle set up specifically for worksite jobs so it means to many trips back and forth.
I've learned my lesson when it comes to pricing things. I quote a price that I can't refuse. If they take it fine, if they don't that's fine too.
I've been doing work for the city of Saratoga the last year or so, it's great, just name your price and they cut me a check made out to me personally, no 1099 or anything. They have no clue how to get things fixed and I screw them way less than the other local welders.
Wonder why the USCRA doesn't have a "Club House". Hell, there's a local bike club of 50 or 60 guys that own their own house and about ten acres where they have pig roasts and stuff all the time.
JohnnyB
That's top notch work you guys do. One of my limits is I won't do onsite work. Not even installation unless it's something like a whole staircase or something odd like the bar at the nightclub. I live a good way out of town and don't have a vehicle set up specifically for worksite jobs so it means to many trips back and forth.
I've learned my lesson when it comes to pricing things. I quote a price that I can't refuse. If they take it fine, if they don't that's fine too.
I've been doing work for the city of Saratoga the last year or so, it's great, just name your price and they cut me a check made out to me personally, no 1099 or anything. They have no clue how to get things fixed and I screw them way less than the other local welders.
Wonder why the USCRA doesn't have a "Club House". Hell, there's a local bike club of 50 or 60 guys that own their own house and about ten acres where they have pig roasts and stuff all the time.
JohnnyB
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