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Tex - I don't really get your point. They all could be arguably "cafe" bikes to me just as they all could be arguably "stock" bikes to me.

There are some literally bone stock bikes there being billed as cafe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973...6QQihZ004QQcategoryZ35599QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yama...11QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6718QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hond...9QQihZ004QQcategoryZ80647QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

All this goes to prove my point which is: Cafe racer motorcycles are more a state of mind and lifestyle than it is a form of bike, and a set of clubmans on your bike do not make manybody a caf racer.

In my eyes a cafe racer is someone who rides an old bike hard on the street or an old bike that lives under the hard life of a heavy right hand. Not the leasuirly sunday rides of a vintage bike owner but a person who is at one with the functionality of his/her machine. Rain does not intimidate the cafe racer. You hear the term applied to people as well as bikes often enough to know that using to hock shit on ebay has no meaning. Let them sell all they want under the guise of ignorance - one will never know what it means until they live it.
 

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quote:
I agree, the mass of people want to look coo, look the part but don't want to live the lifestyle. I drive my 442 every day and I drive her hard alot. A lot of my friends are into rat rides and they drive their rats hard and alot too. They get pissed when they see guys at car shows with their ride made to look like rats and they only drive them once or twice a week. To me cars and motorcycles are built to be driven and to use them for anything else is completely useless. When I finally get my 750 on the road I plan to ride it hard adn ride it alot.

22/m
1980 Honda CB750
1972 Oldsmobile 442
Wadda got in that 442? By any chance is it dark green and has a set of vintage blue and yellow plates on it? Got in to it pretty good with one a while back with my GTO - pretty even match.
 

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There are "hardcore" vespa riders in this country too ya know. My buddy Tim did a lap of america on a 1962 GS150 with a P200 engine. Started out in New Orleans and basically did a loop around the country. If you ever think the scene-sters are starting to get bad, go and to a scooter rally - they have to have it worse than anybody and their scene has been around since the 60's. They actually have entrenched posurs. Mod lifestyle my arse.


My friend said the funniest thing yseterday and I think it applies to branson now:

Don't mistake hairy and sweatty for warm and fuzzy.



Edited by - Geeto67 on Dec 03 2006 07:28:27 AM
 

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A bike advertised as "Cafe" because an owner puts a set of clubman bars on it is one thing. Here's another. I hate this ad.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/hond...6QQihZ006QQcategoryZ35581QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What's really funny is that the seller operates this website.

http://www.nodbags.com/Club Rulez.htm





Edited by - Bret on Dec 03 2006 4:53:34 PM
Wow, just read all his rules and I gotta say that guy is a douche bag. They are funny though. I think the fact he needed to express them in writing on the internet makes him a douche bag. Oh and that ebay axle ad - that is the epitome of douche bag.

The first rule of NOT being a douche bag is not to impose rules on others.

there is one thing I do agree with :

"A man with short man complex will never NOT be a douchebag."

- except A.D. he gets a free pass from me anytime (ain't that right big boy <wink>).

I really like the phrase douche bag.

So here is my thread derailing question - On the internets you can find just about every act of preversion, I've seen fecal fetishes, golden showers, cutters, horse porn...But I have never actually seen a woman use a douche - do you think there is douche fetish porn?
 

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here is my "last ditch" paint fix:

Go get wet sanding sand paper in 800, 1000, and 1500 plus turtle wax polishing compound if you have a buffer and a professional hand rubbing glaze if doing it by hand.

Wet sand the tank with the 800 (the entire tank), clean and then do the 1000 and finally 1500. make sure you have cleaned all the sanding slag off of each sanding coat before going to the next highest grit. go slow and be careful around any corners or ridges where you can burn through the paint really easy. Check your work periodically too. After you have finished sanding, hit it with the polishing compound which is about 2000+ grit. after you have polished the tank give it too coats of a high quality carnuba wax.

if that doesn't take it out nothing will
 

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Along the lines of this thread. Went to my Suzuki/Harley dealership today saw something that made me sicker than normal. Harley "Dyna Bob" $17,000 for a f!!cking flat black Harley. The guy that buys it probably won't even know what a bobber is. Everything cool gets co-opted and sodomized by corporate America. BTW it also pisses me off when I see cars described as ratrods sell for $20,000 on ebay.

Had a job once, didn't like it
you are making a big assumption that flat black was ever "cool"

Considering you are equating flat black with a "bobber" it is likely you have no idea what a real "bobber" is either
 

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I think he's pointing out that H-D is equating flat black with bobbers, for marketing purposes.

Black is always cool. Flat black is/was trendy (although, since it is black after all, it can be cool too).
They aren't though. They are introducing cheaper models with the flat black paint because a lot of customers have asked for the satin finish on their standard models. HD has had the night train for a long time which was an all black bike and now that they are doing it in flat to give the bike more of an option.

they also have a new sporty that is cut down with all the garbag taken off. It really has more of a drag bike feel than a bobber, and is being marketed as a stripped down bare bones tought guy kind of motorcycle than a "bobber". I have seen most of the HD literature on it including alot of internal correspondence about marketing and nowhere does it mention bobber.

If he associates this with a bobber it is because he doesn't know what a true bobber is - but you can't blame him most of modern motorcycle builders don't know what a bobber is either and call anything flat black with no rake and cut down a bobber.

Flat black may have been trendy but the color and texture alone does not make it cool.
 

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A true bobber or bob-tail is a bike (usually made between 1920 and mid 1960s) that does double duty as a street bike and a flat track race bike.

In motorcycling's early days flat track racing was extremely popular and would often travel with carnivals along with dirt track stock car racing. Additionally local dirt tracks would run motorcycles on one day and stock cars on the next day. Most bike owners would not have the cash to have a street bike and a race bike so their daily mount would double as their race bike. Factory backed bikes of this era were thin on speed parts so there was a chance that a talented independant could be a local hero on his indian, harley or triumph. These racers figured out what stuff they could live without and what could easily be unbolted. The term bobber actually comes from removing or "bobbing" (name taken from the popular short hair style of the 1930s) the rear section of the fender to save weight and make tire changes easier between rounds (on harleys this was just a matter of removing the hinge pin, on indians and trumpets in involved cutting). Hillclimbs were also popular at this time and many guys would ride their bike to the meet, unbolt what they didn't need, run the flat track and then run the hillclimb before bolting it all on and going home (if they didn't wad the bike). A real bobber is a bike that does double duty as a street bike and a flat track (and sometimes hillclimb) race bike. A bobber was a bike that the owner made sure could do it all. The were from an era where a bike was not a garaged toy but a means of transportation and a tool.

Styling wise, most bikes were the same layout from that period (rigid frame, springer front end) and these have come to define the bobber "look" along with the cut fender. Most bobbers had factory paint jobs and lettering. Fancy bikes and factory supported bikes were custom painted and often had striping and leaf work. Bikes that were crashed often were painted with whatever the owner could brush on in his spare time. A lot of this was in the tradition of the board track racers that preceded these bikes. You can't have a jap bike bobber (unless it is the brit company JAP) because deidcated flat track race bikes became the standard before the japanese companies began selling in large quantities in the states. Flat black and stock rake and lowered suspension does not make a bike a bobber no matter how much you want it to.

The modern interpretation of a "bobber" pisses all over what there early bikes were. In fact what most people think of as a "bobber" is really an early (1950's-early 1960's) chopper. Before extended forks and peanut tanks became common place, guys were stuck with stock rake and suspension. They built bars out of whatever they could find and threw out what they didn't need because they didn't want to have to fix it on the road later on. It was done more for style than purpose and it eventually led into the frame mods that defined choppers in the 1960s and 1970s. What sux now is some of these modern "bobber" owners are snobbish about long fork choppers when in fact they are just riding an earlier evolution of the style.

Psyco Diver 69 - your buddy's bike is styled like an early 60's frisco chopper (even though it is an ironhead sporty, the paint is 60's-70s all the way). A lot of 1%'ers liked that style because it was easy to ride in traffic and shunned the long bikes of the 60's and 70's. Sorry it is not a bobber, but it is still a good looking bike.

In the era of 40s-60's garage hotrodding flat black or primer rods were not cool. They were considered unfinished cars (or bikes) and it showed that the owner didn't have the scratch for a good laquer job or candy or flake. Since 90% of the rods from that era were the builders only mode of transportation they had to make do until they could secure that fancy paint work. Flat black and primered cars were considered lame. Then sometime around the 1970s primered street machines (musclecars mostly) became popular because they were all business. They were primered or flat black because the owner didn't have time for fancy paint, he was too busy building horsepower or racing. This was kind of a small backlash to the custom crowd who had picked up the ball and ran with candy colors and flake and striping in the 60's and was out of control in the 1970s. Movies like two lane black top and mad max help to establish this in pop culture. Sometime in the late 90's rockabilly guys began to embrace the 70's raw street machine ethic with 1950s unfinished rods and you got flat black with stripes. Cool? maybe but not really because most of these guys are whiny babies about how many flat black trendy rods are out there and theirs is cool because they did it first (oh and don't use the term rat rod around them either).

No bike is ever cool just because it is flat black. A bike can be raw and menacing and be painted flat black and be totally badass cool, but painting your UJM 1970's otherwise mostly stock Jap bike flat black will not give it attitude alone. The flat black can add to attitude but it can't create it. This is why flat black is not "cool". Truth of the matter is it is a cheap finish and says "look at the rest of the bike - that is what is important". If the rest of your bike can't back it up then what? Lame.

Psyco Diver 69 - your cb750 is badass because it looks cobbled together (mad max-ish) and like it could kill you for no reason. The black fits it but it is not cool because it is rattle canned - it is cool because it looks liek you built it out of left over lawn furniture and found objects in your garage and then painted it with house paint.

BTW I stand corrected on the "bobber" marketing for the nightster. Just got my new issue of cycleworld and was reading it on the can an hour ago and they threw around the term bobber pretty loosly (which was not something harley was doing). They also said it was a tough guy motorcycle and compared it to the 1969 sporty which is something harley was saying in their own literature. I place the blame solely on cycle world for being motorcycle morons (espically since edwards owns a real bobber and shoudl be smart enough to know the difference). That being said peter egan is the shiznit.

(BTW this is the burden of having a 1950's greaser and motorcycle nutjob for a father, he fucken lived it and I have had to listen to all shades of it since I was five).



Edited by - Geeto67 on Mar 05 2007 01:48:18 AM

Edited by - Geeto67 on Mar 05 2007 01:49:19 AM
 

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Dresda built a featherbed with an HD sporty motor in it a while back. I think they can even sell you the frame setup to take the motor so you don't have to fab the mounts. Love sportster motors but I sometimes think they are too much for those old brit frames. even the 69 sporty frame was beefier than the same year commando and bonnie.
 

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that weil pic uses an ironhead sporty motor. Nice motor but heavy for....wait for it....the iron heads. If you are going to do a cafe racer sportster based HD you need either a K, KK, or KR flathead motor (predecesor to the sportster) or an XR motor. The new buell motors are not bad either as they have more performance upgrades than the standard 1200 sporty. the other way I would go is big twin, if you could shoe horn it into a wideline featherbed, but it would have to be a nasty 120hp bigh inch (103-120 ci) twin to be worth the effort.

If you can find an XR frame and engine, you are better off using that as the base for a cafe racer, they handle pretty decent to start and the XR750 motor is a little rocket, espically with the alloy heads.
 

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here is Dave Degens Sporton, build up pics so you can see how to get a modern sporty motor in there but I know he finished it, just can't find the finished pics:


http://www.dresda.co.uk/bikes2.asp?CAR=44
http://www.dresda.co.uk/bikes2.asp?CAR=41
http://www.dresda.co.uk/bikes2.asp?CAR=40




I know he sells the frame ready to go for the motor so if you picked that up plus the sporty motor (or buell) you can then swap everything else over from your old norton.

surfing around on his site I found this pic:



it is a big twin motor (evo) in a modified dresda frame.
 
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