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Discussion Starter #1
Damn I'm getting tired of checking in a finding no new posts. Get off your butts and say something. I depend on these places to give meaning to my empty life. Get busy or I'll be forced to down a pint of Draino.
JohnnyB
 

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johnny, with your sad existence you probably have a special pint already set aside in a special velvet-lined mahogany box that you made cad drawings of before you made it and you're just itching to take that baby out and show everyone who ever said you don't have to cahones to do it that you're man enough.

mine's a half gallon you sally <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

you're right, it's been a little too slow lately
 

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dear sally, im sorry but my other real life sometimes mandates (im gonna catch crap for that one!) that i actually pay some attention to it. as much fun as it is to entertain you ladies, i cant always be here to do it. work this week has hell. im still trying to dig myself out of the racing hole from early this month. but i'll be flush again by the end of the month. im even thinking about going to nelson to crew and take notes on the track. today is the local can-asian canada day party. so we'll be out for that bash. the weather is kick ass, and wee always have an intense game of 4-square in the alley. besides, you guys went all techno-moto-geek on the oil conversation. for the record, i use the honda racing 20-50, non synth. that way when i leak it all over the track, its easy to clean.


jb, do you prefer the crystals mixed with some small flakes of aluminum or the liquid. ive always prefered the crystals. like making a martini.


jc
 

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quote:
you're right, it's been a little too slow lately
Ok, Doug has a TZ350 and I'm fucking green with envy. I'm tempted to find out where he lives, smack him around with a breaker bar and steal it.

No, really.

<sigh>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
JC,
You talking about the Nelson track at Shannonville? Surely you can't be..that's a hike for you isn't it?

Rob,
Dgy, is selling the TZ already I think. What's up with that? He's got about five or six of his bikes up for sale in a local classified too.

JohnnyB

I prefer crystals cause they taste kinda minty on my tongue
 

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Johnny,
I posted a perfectly good joke about Jeremy and the Royal Purple and then everyone droped off. Plus now Joes talkig about man dates... we might have to make another catagory.

Oh yeah 14 total pounds have been taken off, although I will have to add a 2-3 pounds for the other tank.

Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Mostly I only understand potty humor, so sometimes I don't know how to respond to anything subtle or requiring thought.

You know what's cool about taking 14 pounds off a 230 lb bike. All things remaining equal you just removed 6% of the weight. So you can expect a 6% increase in accleration and braking. And 6% is nothing to laugh at. If a person was running 1:30 laps and 30 seconds of that time was the process of braking and accleration then you can expect to take approxiamately 1.8 seconds off your lap time...pretty cool huh? Brings it home how important weight is on these small displacement bikes.
JohnnyB
 

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JB, now I am not a physics major, but I don't think you can get away with saying that reducing a bike's weight by 6% you get an increase in acceleration and braking of 6%.

Royal Purple? I was gonna respond with you must have meant Deep Purple. That 70s band

s
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Actually, I am kind of a physics major.
Although the Navy doesn't give out diplomas of that sort.

Force = Mass X Accleration
so
Accleration = Force / Mass.

I what I did F up is that you have to include the rider's weight. So if Aaron weighs 160 lbs it would be about 3%.
In fact, depending upon where the weight was removed (ie,wheels, tires, rotating engine components) it can represent more than 3% because these components have to be acclerated and decelerated in two directions...linear and rotational.
The relationship between mass and accleration is very stable and linear. Granted that if you have a 300 lb bike that does a quarter mile in 12 seconds it's unlikely you'd do a 6 second quarter mile if you reduce the weight to 150 lbs because things like traction is not constant and wind resitance is exponential in nature. But you'd probably do a 9 second quarter.
With a 200cc road racer traction (wheel spin) is not a factor, and weight reduction does little for top speed. So the effects on accleration and braking should be pretty predicatable.
JohnnyB
 

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heres my lame opinion. aaron, you probably dont want to read this.


you have to remove weight in a balanced manner. too much from the front will cause problems as will from the rear id imagine. (does 6% off of the front make the rear 3% lighter under braking??? how would/does that affect what you need to do to compensate under acceleration) blah blah blah. and like jb said, its where you save the weight. thats whats important. accelerating a larger heavier wheel and tire combo will suck more energy than replacing everything with ti bolts to save it. and its easier to save money there. aaron, in all of youre dyno runs, have you dynod the difference between a larger tire versus a smaller one?? i bet saving 2lbs on a rear wheel is worth as much as 5 lbs of frame weight. the other thing is you'll only get faster, if you are already going as fast as you can. if youre going into t9 as fast as you can, theres no reason to make the bike lighter until youre ready to do it. if you cant ride the bike to its fullest, then spending hours making things lighter is a waste of time, in my opinion. although it looks kick ass cool. its a functionality thing for me. you know, kangaroo is something like 30% lighter than cowhide?? all of the top racers use kangaroo. just incase youre serious about saving the weight. i hear its also about 2x as expensive.

when i get to the point where i can beat the guys who are running in the top 5, and riding shit boxes, and you know who im talking about, then i'll really start to worry about weight. for me, its about being able to hang onto the throttle longer than the next guy still. when im hanging on all of the way around the track, and still getting beat, then ill start to worry about weight. just my opinion.


and jb, i was talking about nelson ledges. it wouldnt count for regional points for me, but it would count nationally. next year im going to make a serious run at the wera mid atlantic series. since ive already missed vir the first time around. and i still need to go check out kershaw. its either vir or mosport this august, i cant deide which one i should do yet. im really torn between the 2. although aaron says he'll be donw for vir, and id totally dig seeing his bike there.


hey aaron, i have almost all of the parts for a 350gp honda sitting in my garage. i know you made some comment on building one last race. if youre serious, its yours. also, jeremy, tex is looking for a buffalo brake. i'll get you his cell number tomorrow.

jc

jc
 

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I like to try and build something competive right out of the box. I never do but I always try. I thought my bike looked good but what a non functional piece of shit. My bike has had all the neat vintage stuff taken off. I don't mind trying to ride something to its fullest, I put my dues in on the Beeza 250. I don't need the fastest bike out there but it sure is discouraging watching Johnny and Mary's bike pull like there 350s off the start. Unfortunately I'll need a pretty fast little Honda just to be in the top 5 with the Bransons, the Cam's, and the Armani Angels out there. This is all really John Branson fault.

Ahorn
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I disagree with the old timers (not meaning you Joe :) that think riding comes before all else. Strangely enough those old timers usually have pretty tricked out bikes. I've played guitar for 35 years...and I've always pretty much sucked at it. But to prove to myself it was me that sucked, I've at times owned some of the best guitars made. I feel the same about race bikes. Riding will improve as you work on it, only track time will do it, so your hands are tied, you do the track time, you try to improve. Things like weight reduction are kind of a freebi (and I don't mean in $). Anything you can do to improve the way the bike works will allow you more headroom to improve your riding skills. Going fast on a crappy bike just means you can go fast on a crappy bike, you could go faster on a good bike. So I'll do my best to start out with a good bike and skip the crappy stage.

So there's the really fast guys, beating you on their crappy bike. You still might not keep up with them on a trick bike, but you sure as hell aren't going to keep up with them on a crappy one. And the bottom line, only on rare occassions do you see the "fast" guys on a crappy bike. Yeah Zack was a junkyard 350 one time....but does anyone think they are going to be Zack any time soon? On the other hand I can build a trick bike now...and work on learning to ride as well as him as the opportunity presents itself. For the vast majority of the time you'll see guys like Zack, Phil, Greg, etc on some of the best machinery out there.

I compare my bike this year to my bike last year...all skills remaining equal... it's about 2 seconds a lap quicker. I can't argue with that. Yeah maybe I could have taken off that two seconds with more track time....but if I can...now I'll be four seconds ahead of the game instead of just two.
JohnnyB
 

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I agree and until I become faster I'd like something that presents more opurtunities for better lap times. Now help me with my pipe.

Aaron



Edited by - aaron on Jun 28 2004 12:03:16 AM
 

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ok, yeah, i agree with that. and i wasnt saying you weren't riding it to the limit. but only after 1 season, i figured thered be more room for learning it. but i bet if you put someone else on your bike, it could go even faster than it does with you on it now. what that proves to me is, its not the bike. gaining a sec here or there is great if you can attribute it to building or riding. for me, id rather just try and be a better rider all of the time, on anything. i see it as im not as good a rider as most guys out there, so thats what i need to improve on. when i learn ow to ride well enough, i'll get something worth looking at. it was always the first level of the racing thing for me. put something together and see what i can do with it. then, do something cool. ive got the plan in my head, alot of the parts amassed, and one day, i'll start to actually put it all together. and id say most people here have been actually riding longer than i have, although i most likely rode first. johnny b, youre probably a better builder than rider anyway at this point! aarons just mad becasue he sees your knuckles dragging around the corners and wonders how a bike that little can haul a guy that big around so fast! besides, i dont think they make kangaroos that big.

jc
 

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I'm faster than all you sorry bastards....faster from 3ft to ground level and I don't think my bike has anything to do with it. but my bike will be faster next year. I want to see what kind of distance I can get while sliding on the cases.

joe, the brake is still for sale. I think I'll be listing most of the misc bike stuff I have soon too.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Let me put it this way. There are two ways to get to the front. One is be a better rider than the other guy. Two, is to have a faster bike.
With choice one... all I can do is practice, takes time, there is no way to hurry it.
With choice two... faster bike...goes faster.

If I was in a situation where I've got people going around me in the corners then I'd say I need to worry more about riding skills at the moment. For the most part right now I can hang with anyone in the class in the corners, but when you follow someone around the track for eight laps, only 15 feet behind them, gain on every corner, fall back on every straight, that lets you know you can use a little more bike.
I'm not so naive to think that it's all me. The bike is light and handles well. That helps me in the corners and it's got very good brakes. I often find myself in the situation where if I could get around someone I could stay in front of them, the bike just doesn't have the umph to get around.
Doug Donelan and I go back and forth all the time. We race very close in most situations. When his bike is running great he'll be in front, when mine is running great I'll be in front. Going fast on any bike is a myth, slow bikes go slow. Frank C. is a way better rider than me, and has been racing for about 45 years. I've beat him numerous times because his bike wasn't right. Mary beats a lot of people that are better riders than her because she's 60 lbs lighter.
Rob O. is definately better than me, but put him on a bike with a 400rpm powerband and it looks like I'm faster. The bike DOES matter.

Why beat yourself up trying to go fast on a bike with problems. Why learn bad habits compensating for a bike that handles poorly. Since we are racing, we should be riding race bikes, and race bikes are in general built to go as fast as you can make them go and then it's up to the rider to use them to their fullest.

I watch Aaron right now and I know the biggest thing holding him back is the bike. Sure there is room for improvement in riding, there is room for improvement in everybody. But give Aaron a lighter bike with more HP and he WILL go faster. If he rode my bike and finished last I'd say he should concentrate on skills, but I don't think he'd finish anywhere near last. Now if I was riding RS125s, with people of equal weight on the same bike and I've got people passing me on the brakes, taking me inside on the corners etc. then I know I have a skill problem. But right now that's not the case, and while you can't BUY skill, you can buy HP and handling to a certain extent. I do want to be going to a gun fight carrying a knife.

Let's discuss Aaron some more, it's fun. Personally I think he should grow a goatee or something...it would make him look meaner, and he'd go faster.
JohnnyB
 
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